RTE and the Globalisation of Irish Television

Elmo

I am currently reading this book written by Farrell Corcoran about the Irish TV landscape while he was Chairman of the RTE Authority.

In it he talks about DTT and Digico. Digico would be the company which would be set up to run the Irish DTT service, with RTE holding a small share in the network.

However according to him there was alot of Government messing about with setting up of this company as the government felt that RTE should sell the Network at Net Book Value rather then the future Value of the network should DTT be roled out.

Anyway just one question. Does anyone on boards think DTT Ireland will ever happen?

lawhec

Anyway just one question. Does anyone on boards think DTT Ireland will ever happen?

Yes. It is a question of when rather than if, but with no idea of even having some sort of possible answer to when it is frustrating. The idea of the Irish republic being left behind while Slovenia, Estonia, Hungary and even Namibia now having DTT transmissions is embarresing enough. It simply can't hang on to analogue forever for such a small country in the EU. Furthermore it's a pity that the proposed analogue switchoff date in Northern Ireland won't be until 2011, had it been 2008 or 2009 some kicks up the backsides would be in order. Mind you when it comes to ADSL Eircom seems to be slow enough with that when in Northern Ireland every exchange is now ADSL enabled, including the tiny 20 line one on Rathlin Island!

If I can put forward a suggestion, start doing test transmissions on some of the border transmitters so that people with DTT receivers on both sides of the border can get RTE, TG4 and TV3 in digital without having to stump up for Sky or Cable.

icdg

I'm not sure there is the will for it to happen at this stage.

Most people who want multichannel TV now have it, either via cable/MMDS, or satellite. Plans for Irish DTT were made originally when Sky Digital cost IR£450 to install, carried no BBC channels, did not have interactive etc, and when there were no digital cable or MMDS services. The market has completely changed at this stage, but the legislation down is still the Broadcasting Act 2001 (originally published as the Broadcasting Bill 1999, so we are talking about legislation that is seven years old at this stage, and most of which has yet to be implemented).

Dermot Ahen talked about a plan, but he seemed to be taking it from an all-Ireland approach which I'm not sure was ever practical given there is an existing working DTT service in the North. He's gone now and I'm not sure what Noel Dempsey and the current DCMNR regime have planned. If anything. New primary legislation may well be required, which might take a while also...

Macy

Would there be demand? I think there would, if there was a package similar to the UK. I reckon even if it was simply the RTE1, RTE2, TV3, TG4 and possible Setanta, plus the BBC's, ITV's and CH4 (and five if they could be arsed) it would suit a lot of people that don't understand the FTA DSat don't want to pay a sub and/or live in areas with no cable/mmds.

My example would be my father in law who is delighted with the BBC/FTA channels on dsat that I set him up with - he wants a bit more choice, but doesn't want a monthly sub. Delighted with even the few extra channels (particularly ITV3 actually)

However, the problem could come with too many people being set up with Dsat FTA recievers. If say ITV1 & 2 go FTA, then along with the BBC stable there is a fair amount of choice already (before we even get into FTV cards).

The other issue I would see is that RTE would price anything other than basic out of the market. Wasn't there talk of €250 a year for the irish stations plus BBC/ITV/Ch4? They're pricing it out of the market.

The Government should move on this, but in reality I can't see it happening until the North switches over and significant numbers around the border/east coast are already watching it. If it becomes the norm in these areas then the Government will rush it through in a panic (making some private company rich). Even then I'd have my doubts. A FTV card option may be the way RTE/Government decide to go to get the digital numbers up if the EU put the pressure on...

Mossy Monk

DTT in this country is already way too far behind with the amount of people viewing multichannel tv as it is atm

Round Cable

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, RTE could make a nice sum of money by offering DTT, no licence, no DTT box.

Elmo

DTT will have to be rolled out at some stage. (Looking like it will happen when you cann't buy a new anologue TV set :rolleyes: ).

Should I assume that the New Licences that the BCI are giving out for cable/mmds/sat will also be for DTT.

Which means that a DTT service with the services that the BCI are currently proposing would be a great prospect, with each of the cable providers (Sky included) having to put the FTA DTT service at the start of their services????

I think RTE, TG4 and TV3 should just agree to broadcast their services on DTT now, while discussing what services they could provide and what is best to do with RTE's Network.

lawhec

I completely agree that the climate for DTT is much different compared to that of the late 90's. The problem seems to be on what to follow up a non-existant plan with. Nevertheless if just the four main terrestial channels were to roll out a DTT network especially in rural areas which still rely on terrestial TV for RTÉ, TG4 and TV3 (excluding MMDS), emphasising it's benefits (one single UHF aerial rather than having a VHF & UHF aerial in some cases, potentially better reception in some cases, widescreen and so on) a timetable for the analogue switchoff could at least then be drawn up.

Intrestingly the Irish authorities managed to get cleared a load of high powered DTT allocations last year from the ITU so maybe they'll start doing something with them shortly.

Capt'n Midnight

Macy wrote:

Would there be demand? I think there would, if there was a package similar to the UK.

look how many people subscribe to the basic packages from NTL / Chorus, there is a very large market for Irish and UK teresterial. But that is a price sensitive market cos' otherwise they'd be on digital already.

Any service that didn't carry the UK terresterials is a non-starter.
And as for subscription services OnDigital failed in the UK

Elmo

Any service that didn't carry the UK terresterials is a non-starter.

I total disagree with this.

I think that we need stronger Irish Television, it is currently total diluted with British and American TV. We need to provide several Irish Stations Free To Air, which would be carried by NTL, Chorus and Sky (At the start of their EPGs). If you want the UK station then you should pay a subscription to those companies, but you should have free access to all of the Irish Stations and all possible Irish Stations through DTT.

telecinesk

Out here in the sticks of central europe we have DTT since last year. 5 channels at mo,STV1,2 etc testing.
The idea of carrying our neighbours state tv channels on DTT would make it very desireable but Id guess a legal minefield. DTT is provided by STV which is state run.

Our mmds carries czech tv alright but its a subscription service of course.

If RTE was carrying BBC on its DTT service Id assume that would be rather interesting legally. Then again I just saw TG4 is reported in NI>

But it might push DTT 5 years foward unlike current position which is laughable for a western europe country, as Im in a place where not so long ago they were still using SECAM and FM Band as one of their Tv relays. CH R5 for anyone who knows...

byte

If UK terrestrial channels were to be carried on an Irish DTT system, what they could do, is charge a yearly fee for a smartcard (obviously the DTT box would need a CAM) to unblock the BBC, etc. All Irish channels and a few others, like Sky News etc would be FTA. Not sure how feasible this is, but seems logical.

Elmo

I think we should at least first look at what type of TV channels we could provide and then think of the foreign stations that could also be provided.

Telefís

Anyone know when the DTT trials announced by Ahern last year for the Dublin area are to be carried out, if at all?

Why would the British stations charge viewers for their services on an Irish DTT system as is being suggested? And why would it be a legal minefield - surely they'd pay Digico something for transmission and end of story?

Elmo

Why would the British stations charge viewers for their services on an Irish DTT system as is being suggested? And why would it be a legal minefield - surely they'd pay Digico something for transmission and end of story

According to the book C4 and sky will eventally pay for Irish And British rights to US shows.
My only problem about allowing British TV stations broadcast would be that they would take money out of the country.

Lets face it only 1/3 of money that we spend on the TV is actually spend in Ireland.

Telefís

Yeah, a large portion of it dissappears to outside the state.
Aside from in-house programming, RTÉ spend approx €42 million at the moment on independent television here, TV3 about 50c - so the native industry could still do with building, although it is growing fast.

It must only be a matter of time as you say before the UK channels buy the rights for us too, sure at this stage it's probably generally accepted that most of Ireland recieves these broadcasts; 70% or so recieve Ch4 & UTV now, roughly 80% get BBC.
Don't the BBC hold the rights for Ireland as well as the UK as a result of their change to Astra 2 for Freeview?

Macy

Elmo wrote:

My only problem about allowing British TV stations broadcast would be that they would take money out of the country.

Lets face it only 1/3 of money that we spend on the TV is actually spend in Ireland.

Well it's the population at large that are driving that - from football to soap opera's to reality TV.... However, personally I think that's getting into the public service debate again.

RTE are those figures right for how many can receive BBC, ITV and CH4? Surprised it's that high. Makes you wonder why they'd bother with sat encryption at all (again another debate), but more pertinently why RTE pay money for the same stuff at all, bar for the sake of a couple of days in some cases.

Elmo

Well it's the population at large that are driving that - from football to soap opera's to reality TV.... However, personally I think that's getting into the public service debate again.

I don't think it is getting in to the public service debate.

1. Sky have 300,000 customers, NTL have another 200,000 and Chorus have a similar amount. Each customer = a household.
2. Sky(Sports, News, One), MTV, E4, C4, UTV, Nickeloden and soon Paramount Comedy Channel advertise to each customer.
3. Sky News spend 3,000,000 on a small Irish News Service.
4. RTE spend 25,000,000 on imports
5. TV3 spend around the same and give 6million euro each year to Canwest and ITV plus most of the money they spend on imports.
6. TG4 spend 3,000,000 on imports.

Nearly 600,000,000 is spend on irish TV, that includes licence fee, advertising on 17 channels or so and Subscription Fees. It might even be higher then this. Prob not even 200,000,000 is spent on making TV in Ireland.

This is a totally stupid situation to be in.

Telefís

Surely Chorus do not have 200,000 television customers - I thought it was more in the region of 65,000-70,000? 200,000 is offered on their site but I think that also includes all telephone and broadband services too.

It infuriates me how Sky have been allowed take over the Irish market while the Govt have been sitting on their hands. I had a lecturer in college, a committed psber if ever there was one, and his blood would literally boil at even the mention of Sky - sauntering about the place winning over the desperate public
All the same, while a large amount of Sky customers subscribe simply in order to recieve basic stations, a majority perhaps subscribe specifically to recieve a greater choice, i.e. to consume the product they're offering, rather than having to out of necessity. This part of their customer base wouldn't change regardless of what basic British channels were on offer here. To allow the terrestrials to broadcast on an Irish DTT system would be seen by most as a right rather than a privilege. These stations will always be with us and are not the major drains of finance out of this country.

As for the rights for Ireland vs UK, yes it is nothing short of ridiulous that some programming is bought by RTÉ which is already mostly available elsewhere. One can only wonder what was paid for the last series of Friends - big deal if they're 'the first broadcaster in Europe' to screen the last episode, ignoring the fact that 60-70% of people are already able to recieve it.
That's why I view the screening of Eastenders on RTÉ an utter disgrace - they pounced on it like a drowning rat as soon as Coronation St was lost, in a panic at the idea of filling the evening schedule with homegrown material - completely disregarding the three quarters of the population already able to view it. How utterly ridiculous, whatever about the financial implications - the BBC must be laughing their backsides off at us.
And not a word was said in the media about this - it's one of the greatest scandals in recent progrmming history in Ireland. At least Coronation St was an institution being shown on the station for around 24 years, and being a huge cash cow for the station, as well as attracting significant audiences for following homegrown programmes.

Regarding the availabilty of stations, here's the 2004 list from Medialive. Some of the figures appear to have gone down a bit - CH4 & UTV I read before as being 66-68%.
Perhaps a different method is being used now...

http://www.medialive.ie/Television/region.html

Macy

RTE wrote:

Regarding the availabilty of stations, here's the 2004 list from Medialive. Some of the figures appear to have gone down a bit - CH4 & UTV I read before as being 66-68%.
Perhaps a different method is being used now...

http://www.medialive.ie/Television/region.html

Well take the "ITV" figure and it's not far off. Maybe an indication of more sky, less cable/mmds (considering what is seen on some of the forums about their customer service!).

I agree with regard to the likes of Eastenders, Friends etc. Licence fee money that could be better spent.

Elmo

That's why I view the screening of Eastenders on RTÉ an utter disgrace - they pounced on it like a drowning rat as soon as Coronation St was lost, in a panic at the idea of filling the evening schedule with homegrown material - completely disregarding the three quarters of the population already able to view it. How utterly ridiculous, whatever about the financial implications - the BBC must be laughing their backsides off at us.
And not a word was said in the media about this - it's one of the greatest scandals in recent progrmming history in Ireland. At least Coronation St was an institution being shown on the station for around 24 years, and being a huge cash cow for the station, as well as attracting significant audiences for following homegrown programmes.

I total agree that Eastenders shouldn't have been bought by RTÉ. However I think you will find that Coronation Street started on RTÉ Two in 1978, didn't have much of an audience until RTÉ One started broadcasting it in 1992 when Network 2 became the Olympic Channel. So it only really became the cash cow in 1992 just in the same way that EastEnders didn't have a huge following on TV3 yet now gets 500,000 viewers on RTÉ One. Put something on RTÉ One and your gauranteed viewers.

Richard

Macy wrote:

Well take the "ITV" figure and it's not far off.

Yes, but how do 5% of Connacht/Ulster get HTV? (Or ITV1 Wales for that matter!)