Driving up North on a provisional??

Lord Nikon

I have to go up North for a family occasion, and rather than pay 50quid to take the train, I thought i'd drive up.

Now, it's not that i'm nervous about driving up there, but the fact that i'm on a provisional(well, my third provisional actually). What are my chances of getting prosecuted by a Northern copper?

I rang my insurance company(Quinn Direct), and they assured me that I'm covered for everything.

Should i risk it, and remove my L-plates, and hope for the best, and if i get caught i'll tell the plod my licence is at home?

Has anyone been in a similar situation? Can they shed some light on the subject?

Neuro

Rew

AFAIK you cannt drive legally up there on a provisional, dont think its internationaly recognised also would your insurance cover you?

mackerski

I'd be slow to risk it. The chances of being caught are low (as long as you don't speed or act the muppet and aren't going to a check-point-rich locality, in which case, don't even think about it). However, the UK penalties for driving without a licence (which is what you're contemplating) are very stringent[1], and involve applying points to any future licence you may hold. I believe the fine is quite steep too.

Take the train for the peace of mind. I would. €50 isn't as troublesome as the alternative.

Dermot

[1] http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/010830/226/c2jwc.html

Don't let the note about exemptions for holders of foreign licences encourage you. That refers to full licences, a provisional doesn't count. Note too that the same penalties attach to learners with a proper UK provisional.

cormie

Well legally you shouldn't even be driving Southern roads without a fully licensed driver aged 25+ with you.

I was going to do the same thing a few months back but decided to take the train. Yes it's a rip off. Or else you could pay I think it was €14 or so and get the bus. Longer but if you earn less per hour than the money you would be saving taken into consideration with the extra time you will be spending then go for it.

Lord Nikon

mackerski wrote:

Don't let the note about exemptions for holders of foreign licences encourage you. That refers to full licences, a provisional doesn't count. Note too that the same penalties attach to learners with a proper UK provisional.

Don't want this to sound cheeky but, how would they know that i'm on a provisional?

lomb

neuromancer wrote:

I have to go up North for a family occasion, and rather than pay 50quid to take the train, I thought i'd drive up.

Now, it's not that i'm nervous about driving up there, but the fact that i'm on a provisional(well, my third provisional actually). What are my chances of getting prosecuted by a Northern copper?

I rang my insurance company(Quinn Direct), and they assured me that I'm covered for everything.

Should i risk it, and remove my L-plates, and hope for the best, and if i get caught i'll tell the plod my licence is at home?

Has anyone been in a similar situation? Can they shed some light on the subject?

Neuro

i would pay the 50 quid tbh. it def isnt legal, a condition of your insurance is that u hold a license to drive the car, which you will not in the UK. the chances are very very slim, if u drive carefully within the limit so its up to yourself. but a cop there can ask u to produce a license at any time.

Rew

neuromancer wrote:

Don't want this to sound cheeky but, how would they know that i'm on a provisional?

When they pull you over and ask for it they can read it off it...

dogz

just go, they cant touch you, worst thing they can do is put points on ur record(say u get 2 points, if u apply for a uk license u automatically have 2 points) but as far as i know your irish one remains clean, also ur unlikely to be stopped as the ruc know that the fact ur from the south theres very little they can do to u. as long as ur insurance will cover u do it and forget about the "police" up there

unkel

Why are you wasting your money like this for years? And risking being uninsured abroad. Only driving licenses allow you to drive outside this state. You could have got your driving license years ago :rolleyes:

Your insurer will probably give you twice the hike for your penalty points compared to someone with a driving license with the same number of points...

Nuttzz

go, what are the chances of anything happening, slim in honesty. do you think lads in the border counties on provo licences dont cross over the border on a daily basis. of course they do I know plenty. Take the L plates down, Stay within the speed limits and dont drink and drive, if you are stopped at a check point and asked for licence just say "gee constable I must have left it in my suit". I drive on up the north a lot (on my full licence) and their checkpoints are as frequent as they are down here, any on the ones i have goe thru just wave you on as you have a southern reg, just go

Talliesin

Most countries other than this one have a weird thing whereby they only let you drive on your own if you know how to drive. They determine this by a process they call a "driving test".

Indeed in Northern Ireland for the first year after you pass your test you still have the restrictions of a learner driver except for being able to drive unaccompanied by an experienced driver (e.g. you can't go over 45m.p.h. on a road with a higher speed limit than that). This experiment has been shown to have a drastic reduction in the number of road accidents but alas was never extended to the rest of the UK.

Getting stopped while driving is still a relatively common occurance, particularly on the border itself (though obviously far rarer than before the ceasefires). As such the odds of getting asked to show your license are high enough to make chancing it unwise.

jimmycrackcorm

Being someone from the north west, who drives regularly through the north, I'll tell you not to worry a bit. The PSNI have no concept of road traffic policing ( I think they are still scared about getting shot at out on the open road). I would be very careful about my speed down south but have only seen speed checks about twice on the last fiftenn years travelling though there. If you don;t have your licence with you then how can they do anything about only carrying a provisional.

Remember - the golden rule whethe you dislike it or not- it's a foreign country.

unkel

Talliesin wrote:

Most countries other than this one have a weird thing whereby they only let you drive on your own if you know how to drive. They determine this by a process they call a "driving test"

Your sarcasm beats mine, Talliesin

Unfortunately it's not really a laughing matter. It might be safer in a country where blind folk are allowed to have guns

Talliesin

unkel wrote:

Unfortunately it's not really a laughing matter. It might be safer in a country where blind folk are allowed to have guns

Well, having grown up in the North the whole idea of letting people who can't drive drive around is mind-boggling. Some people drive when they've failed their test - these aren't just people who we don't know if they can drive or not but people we know can't drive.

It's a key reason why we have such a high rate of motoring accidents, which in turn is a key reason for the cost of insurance here (next time someone complains that it's "X times cheaper to get insured in Y than in Ireland" take a look at how the road accident statistics compare).

unkel

Talliesin wrote:

the whole idea of letting people who can't drive drive around is mind-boggling. Some people drive when they've failed their test - these aren't just people who we don't know if they can drive or not but people we know can't drive

Exactly. Imagine taking out a bank loan. After a year failing to make any repayments, you approach your bank manager requesting another loan. What are the chances of him / her saying "grand, you have failed to repay the loan, here's another loan for you" :rolleyes:

jimmycrackcorm

Talliesin wrote:

Some people drive when they've failed their test - these aren't just people who we don't know if they can drive or not but people we know can't drive.

You can fail your test for the pettiest of reasons. The whole thing is ridiculous - I mean I remember way back my driving instructors hint on passing was to continuously scan from mirror to mirror to show observance.

And while the learner drivers are so nervous that they take extra care, much more experienced drivers speed through red lights.

I'd bet that everyone of the 22 drivers who had an accident with the Luas so far actually heve full licences.

jimmycrackcorm

dogz wrote:

just go, they cant touch you, worst thing they can do is put points on ur record(say u get 2 points,

There is no cross link for penalty points - yet so you can't get any.

If you don't have your licence with you then there is nothing they (PSNI) can do. However if you are caught speeding or worse, they will arrest you and hold you in the station until you get bail. they will allow you to go to an ATM though to get the £100 or so bail. Otherwise you will have to get someone to bail you out. I know plenty of people this has happened to.

Capt'n Midnight

Rew wrote:

AFAIK you cannt drive legally up there on a provisional, dont think its internationaly recognised also would your insurance cover you?

Lets put it this way UK laws about L plates are a lot more restrictive than down here. You can't put your L plates in the windows - they are invariably at the ends of the car. Also drivers who had passed thier test got R plates and had to wear them for the first year and wern't allowed on motorways during that period or allowed drive over 45mph !!.

So bearing all that in mind I'd like to hear how you are going to reason this out with a representative from the PSNI , so many regulations to throw at you if they feel like and the prospect of us recognising each others points in the future means it could be worth thier while.

Talliesin

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Also until recently drivers who had passed thier test got R plates and had to wear them for the first year and wern't allowed on motorways during that period.

"until recently" - you mean they got rid of R plates?
What a shame.

Capt'n Midnight

Talliesin wrote:

"until recently" - you mean they got rid of R plates?
What a shame.

Looks like they are still there..
http://www.dvlni.gov.uk/drivers/learndrive_Rplates.htm

‘R’ Plate Rules

After passing the driving test for a motor car or motorcycle, you must display amber ‘R’ plates for a period of one year from the date of passing the test.

The plates MUST conform to legal specifications and MUST be clearly visible to others from in front of the vehicle and from behind. Plates should be removed or covered when not being driven by a restricted driver.

The maximum permitted speed for any vehicle displaying R plates is 45 mph, irrespective of whether or not the vehicle is being driven by a restricted driver.
New residents in NI who apply for a provisional licence and pass a test within 12 months of becoming resident, are exempt from the 'R’ Plate rules above. DVLNI will require proof of when you entered Northern Ireland.

Hmmm you are allowed to use D plates in Wales
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/n6w/index/your_world/travel/driving_licences.htm

sceptre

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Hmmm you are allowed to use D plates in Wales
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/n6w/index/your_world/travel/driving_licences.htm

Aye, you can thank William Hague for that one. Only when in Wales though - take the car on a day out to Chester and you're supposed to have L plates instead of or in addition to your D plates.

MrPudding

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

There is no cross link for penalty points - yet so you can't get any.

If you don't have your licence with you then there is nothing they (PSNI) can do. However if you are caught speeding or worse, they will arrest you and hold you in the station until you get bail. they will allow you to go to an ATM though to get the £100 or so bail. Otherwise you will have to get someone to bail you out. I know plenty of people this has happened to.

I think the penalty points would be the least of his troubles. Although stop are fairly infrequent they need no reason to pull you over. Driving without a license is taken fairly seriously. I would not risk it. Of course if you do not get stopped everything will be fine. However, if you get stopped you will be in a world of pain. I wouldn't like to try the "forgot my license" line.

COP- Can I see your license and vehicle registration please?
You- I don't have my license on me.
COP- Are you trying to tell me you have travelled to another country driving a vehicle and didn't bother bringing any proof that you are actually qualified to drive the vehicle.
You- Ah, yes.
COP- Would you mind stepping out of the car please sir?

For me someone that drives to another country and does not bring a driving license with them is probably too stupid to drive. I would like to think any cop would feel the same.

MrP
MrP

Capt'n Midnight

sceptre wrote:

Aye, you can thank William Hague for that one. Only when in Wales though - take the car on a day out to Chester and you're supposed to have L plates instead of or in addition to your D plates.

Somewhere out there there is a car with D L R and L plates

bp_me

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

You can fail your test for the pettiest of reasons. The whole thing is ridiculous - I mean I remember way back my driving instructors hint on passing was to continuously scan from mirror to mirror to show observance.

And while the learner drivers are so nervous that they take extra care, much more experienced drivers speed through red lights.

Does it not bother anyone that 50% or so of people who take the driving test fail it. Imagine if 50% of people were to fail the leaving cert!

mackerski

cormie wrote:

Well legally you shouldn't even be driving Southern roads without a fully licensed driver aged 25+ with you.

Where are you getting this 25+ stuff from? It's news to me, and not mentioned on the DOT website.

bp_me wrote:

Does it not bother anyone that 50% or so of people who take the driving test fail it. Imagine if 50% of people were to fail the leaving cert!

It bothers me a lot more that so many of the people who pass it are manifestly incapable of piloting a vehicle properly. Looked at that way, the failure rates should probably rise before falling.

Dermot