QQ, JJ What to do.....

Samba

I am sick of the above mentioned hands when it comes to online Cash Games.

In the past two days i have been Dealt QQ around 4 times and JJ probably 3.

I have not made a penny with them on any occasion, thankfully I have lost very little with them as I have flat called to the river and at most, lost $30 on them.

So my question is, how do you play QQ in online cash play? Do you call a raised pot, when it comes doen 10 high do you push all in?


I can tell you that had I done the above I would have made a serious dent in my bankroll over the past two days.

I have tried everything, limping in, Raising min-raising, check-raising and every bloody time I have run in to a higher pocket pair or an AK flop.

On one occasion I even flopped a set of queens in a pot i raised and got two callers, of course the flop had J9 two spades with it.

By the time I make my first bet it then gets back around to me and I am being asked to commit my entire stack, I folded and one had a flush draw/inside straight draw(AKs) the other floped the nuts with K10s d, the flush hit and the board did not pair.

I am really frustrated with these hands at the moment and I would be very interested to see everyone else views on these hands.


What really annoys me is, I see this crap go on day in day out in online play at it causes me to play ultra-tight. I then sit down in a live game with the same attitude and suffer due to it.(I don't make as much as I could)

I am up around $280 over the two days but I am seriously considering giving online play the boot and have been for a while now.

henbane

Raise! Thin the field. Make a judgment on the flop based on your reads of whoever takes it too.

7 hands is definitely not a big enough sample size to justify playing them weak unless you're at a very loose table where they will want to see the flop no matter the raise.

Samba

henbane wrote:

Raise! Thin the field. Make a judgment on the flop based on your reads of whoever takes it too.

This is my frustration henbane any time I have done this I have ran into AA or KK (on four occasions)

henbane

Samba wrote:

This is my frustration henbane any time I have done this I have ran into AA or KK (on four occasions)

How is this frustrating? It happens. Set over set and overpair -v- overpair happen. If your read is good enough, you can lay them down. Otherwise, take the hit and reload. Losing a hand is not the end of the world.

willis

I hate hands like these online,as you have pointed out you rarely seem to win with these hands online.
The other day i was playin a £50 stt on betfair,level 2 blinds 15/30,i pick up pocket rockets on the button.UTG raises to 120,2 callers on a very tight table so far,I raise to 360(we all had roughly 1,000),UTG calls,then 1 player goes all-in with JJ,other caller goes all-in also with AQ,i have to go all-in and UTG calls with AK thus putting himself all-in.I cant understand how player with JJ thinks he can be winning to a raise with a reraise also,AQ-wats he thinking,raise-reraise-reraise all-in, then can AK really think hes ahead of 3 all-ins with AK,is he not afraid of AA or KK?This is suppossed to be a high standard aswell!neways as online poker usually goes 2 Kings come on flop and im drawing dead,just great!You never seem to see this in live poker,wat can u do though??not play i suppose but its so addictive!!

henbane

What I can't understand is people whining about being outdrawn. It happens, deal with it or don't play poker. It happens live too, you just see more hands online.

Were you happy when you saw JJ, AK and AQ -v- your AA? Of course you were, but somewhere along the way you mistook being ahead for having a divine right to win the hand.

Samba

True henbane, very true I should not get dismayed but it has been a awful long time since I have won with these hands, I have the ability to put them down no problem, I suppose the point I am making is I have to put the bloody things down so often, that is what frustrates me.

Samba

henbane wrote:

What I can't understand is people whining about being outdrawn. It happens, deal with it or don't play poker. It happens live too, you just see more hands online.

Were you happy when you saw JJ, AK and AQ -v- your AA? Of course you were, but somewhere along the way you mistook being ahead for having a divine right to win the hand.

I really wish you stop telling people to not play poker as you know as well as I do, Jesus will come forth before that happens

I loathe QQ as every time I am dealt the hand I simply presume that I will be outdrawn as it has happend so frequently over the past year I have been playing online I can say without out exaggeration that 1 in 7 hands I have won on average holding QQ playing online. It simply has not been very profitable and the only time it has is when I have slow played them and hit a set.

Iago

generally I would tend to put a meaty raise in preflop with QQ or JJ, I play them the same way I play AK and AQ, thin the herd and see what the flop brings. Occasionally I'll slow play them, but only when I've already decided I'm throwing them away if I don't like the flop, that can be easier but probably less profitable in the long run. TBH I hate limping with them, for all the action you might get post flop because of it, there's 6-7 cards in the deck that can ruin the hand for you!

I find JJ very easy to throw away preflop, QQ is much more difficult although I have done it on occasion. After the flop, depending on what's down, and if I haven't hit, I'll normally throw out a bet higher than my raise preflop and see what action it provokes.

The problem you have with QQ and JJ I have with AKs or AKo, had them a number of times but can't seem to win with them. Sometimes you have to put the hand out of your head and carry on...

BigDragon

As TJ Cloutier says "In Texas when they say they have a small pair they mean QQ on down...."

Tough one really, with alot of variables depending on the action/table make-up etc imho.

henbane

You would need a massive sample size to justify playing them weakly preflop. Pokerroom has that kind of sample size and given they rank 3rd and 4th by EV, I don't think there is any real reason to play them weakly in most circumstances. At a loose table, there may be no point in a raise which will just price the LAGs in on a later round but a table that loose is pretty rare.

kencleary

henbane wrote:

You would need a massive sample size to justify dropping them or playing them weakly preflop. Pokerroom has that kind of sample size and given they rank 3rd and 4th by EV, I don't think there is any real reason to play them weakly in most circumstances. At a loose table, there may be no point in a raise which will just price the LAGs in on a later round but a table that loose is pretty rare.

Wow great link henbane!
Fascinating some of the hands that are ranked as -EV. Q T for example is one i'd regularly play. Interesting aswell to see that some of the worst hands are hands like A 2 & K 3 and that these have among the highest count suggesting that people just can't put em down when they hit top pair or the idiot end of a straight.

henbane

Samba wrote:

I really wish you stop telling people to not play poker as you know as well as I do, Jesus will come forth before that happens

At this stage, I should probably put it in my sig.

Iago

henbane wrote:

You would need a massive sample size to justify playing them weakly preflop. Pokerroom has that kind of sample size and given they rank 3rd and 4th by EV, I don't think there is any real reason to play them weakly in most circumstances. At a loose table, there may be no point in a raise which will just price the LAGs in on a later round but a table that loose is pretty rare.

In fairness those stats are rubbish 72o a -EV hand?? Give me a break...

][cEMAN**

QQ I would normally raise. JJ I would normally check. See too many over pairs. I actually hate J more than any card in the deck for some reason. Guess it's so dodgy in that it's a face and i'm supposed to think it strong, but it's relatively weak.

Q's up i'll play, but I wouldn't knock it - i've been beaten a lot lately when I held pocket kings!

I've had a particularly bad run of cards. Seen maybe 15-20 hands before I get a face card, and then it's J2 or something like that unsuited. I'm giving a rest for the moment, then putting more cash in and playing some more.

henbane

Iago wrote:

In fairness those stats are rubbish 72o a -EV hand?? Give me a break...

True, but we can't all play at your standard.

Took a pot down with the HAMMER myself last night. Dealt QQ in the next hand and busted one po' muthafúcker when I made the same raises and he thought going over the top with a gutshot + bottom pair would be a good idea. HAMMERTIME, baby!

mewso

I vary alot with JJ from limping to raising but with QQ I always raise. What I'm looking for is somebody with overcards to call me and hoping nothing higher than a Q hits the flop. Then he has to pay to go any further.

Iago

henbane wrote:

True, but we can't all play at your standard.

Took a pot down with the HAMMER myself last night. Dealt QQ in the next hand and busted one po' muthafúcker when I made the same raises and he thought going over the top with a gutshot + bottom pair would be a good idea. HAMMERTIME, baby!

Nice, doubling up on the power of 72o..72o squared even

if you trust it, it will come!

Samba

heh, maybe I am going through a bad period. Right this second, dealt QQ I raise to 7 50/1 blinds. Next thing I know someone has put me all in... I wonder what he has.... I fold and hes shows AA.


An hour ago(and I have witnesses!) Dealt QQ. 25/50 blinds I raise to 5 UTG, it gets raised and re-raised. I fold

We both fold player shows KK.

I must have angered the god of poker and he is out to get me

henbane

online poker is rigged!!!11one. This one time I AK and someone with 53o called and I lost. It's rigged. That never happens in live games!!!!111one

][cEMAN**

DAMN THIS THREAD!

Last night holding pocket J's. Flop comes up 4AK. Low betting, which I chalk up to someone looking to check interest in the hand.

Turn comes up 8, check all around. River brings a Q. 2 left apart from me. 3 clubs on the board at this stage as well. So i'm thinking flush, straight, or high pair/2pair/trips. Betting starts off high so I fold em.

2 guys turn up the cards and they're both on a single pair - none of them face cards. Pair of 4's and a pair of 8's. Could kick myself...

Dem's da breaks!

Lafortezza

I find QQ is fairly straight forward to play, raise enough preflop to get rid of the Ax and Kx hands that tempt some people. Bet the flop (if first to act) even if it comes A or K high, if the flop is AKx then depending on how many people are still active in the hand its usually better not to bet.

JJ is a trickier hand, I'd usually limp if in EP in a tournament, raise in LP hoping more to steal blinds/limps than to see a flop. Cash games its an auto raise unless you're at a very loose table then it can be better to limp and play it for set value.

Sometimes I'd limp with JJ, you can get paid by something like A9s if the flop comes 9 high, but you do run the risk of letting the blinds in to hit 2 random pair on the flop if you don't raise.

ionapaul

Well, JJ two hands in a row ensured I was first out (w00t w00t!) of the PokerStars Boards tournie last night, but that was down to risk-taking and stupid play. JJ didn't help me last night off-line either, for that matter.

At the same time, JJ and QQ have often been very good to me, holding up against AK and AQ in recent times. Depending on position, I would always raise 3xBB or so pre-flop with QQ, almost always with JJ. My subsequent post-flop play would vary depending on position and my assessment of the others' styles of play.

Samba

Henbane, grow up will you? and for the love of god stop trying to have a go, it's really getting tiresome at this stage, did my comment on another thread hurt your feelings that much?

Where did I say online poker is rigged? If you have nothing to contribute but sad remarks, I suggest you don't post at all please.


QQ is a hand that has not been good to me, I played for another four hours last night and was dealt QQ three times. Each time I ran into KK & AA, KK in the other and finally AK, each time I put in sizeable raises and was immediately re-raised(bar by AK who hit AA on the flop) glad all these idiots are so nice to give me reads on their hands.

I see bet365 have changed their policy, on their backs now applies to Cash games which is nice.

On another note I saw QQ take down a $140 on a 25/50 table. Roller Coaster hand. Three all ins 1010, JJ and QQ. Flop comes KK10, Ow says the guy with QQ and JJ turn is a blank, river is a K, I was very happy to see them win


I do not believe online poker is rigged, why would all these companies risk what they make in daily rake? I do however believe that I have had a serious run of bad luck with QQ.

I say online play as that is where I play more often than not, ONLINE. Henbane if you have an isssue with me, I suggest you pm and take it up there not on every thread posted here.

henbane

There's an issue? I disagree with some of what you post. I don't think that qualifies as an issue. Relax dude.

Samba

I am glad to hear that Henbane as I do not like negative vibes. / goes off to make a nice relaxing herbal tea.

Trust me if you had seen what I have been through with QQ over the past week you would

mewso

Can people stop taking Henbane seriously please. Getting tiresome.

DeVore

LOL @ Muso.... thats exactly what I was thinking!!!111one.

In the boards online tournie there was a hand at our table. It made me sick but I'm happy enough with how I played it. Dirkey tickle-raised and I decided I needed to know there and then if I was facing a big hand. I reraise to 400 I think, player to the left of me (Ionapaul?) rereraises to about 1000. Dirkey goes all in. So, question asked, question answered but I REALLY dont want to drop it and see AK and JJ. However I simply cant honestly expect that those exact two hands (which are really the only hands other then hands that dominate me they could be doing this with) will hit the table. Even then I'd think it very odd play. So begrudgingly I dropped it and Ionapaul with noone to act after and a chunk of chips in the middle calls. He has JJ, Dirkey has KK and I had QQ... weird eh?

DeV.
ps: I've never seen someone get as many quality hands and big pairs as Dirkey that night!

Samba

He has JJ, Dirkey has KK and I had QQ... weird eh?

Not really

Can people stop taking Henbane seriously please. Getting tiresome.

Shakes fist in the air... i'll see you at the poker tables

LOL @ Muso.... thats exactly what I was thinking!!!111one

and you!!