Harrassment of debtors

LegacyUser

I had a guy call round to my house tonight demanding money for a repair to a car I no longer own. I belived him to do a very bad job and as a result i am refusing to pay.

He has being harrassing me by phone and it came to a head tonight when he called round. I told i wont pay him and he refused to leave when I asked him to. He stuck his foot in the door and i asked him to leave the property. I advised him that he was trespassing. He then started uttering obsenities at me and then said he would stick his solitictor on me.

I would assume that if he wants to get the money he should sue me. Fair enough, but what can I do to stop him showing up again and ringing me?

Thanks for your time and advice
Worried

REDZ

keep a record of all his harrasment efforts, and prepare you case that the repairs were not up to scratch. i'm no legal expert, but i don't think this form of personal harrasment is allowed. i'm assuming the bill is around a grand, and if this is the case going to court is not a good option, you are contesting the quality of the work.even if he won the judge might not award his costs, and then its a painful aste of tme for all. i would avise you make him a responable offer like 400euro and put it in writing, as even if he refuses it, it would help your case in court.
best of luck
Redz

dermot_sheehan

He has no right to enter your property without your permission. Tell him to take it to court and inform him that he is not to enter your property in future.

If he persists:

1. You can use "reasonable force" to remove a tresspasser from your property.
2. When he sues you for breach of contract, you can enter a counter-claim for tresspass.
3. You can get an injunction restraining tresspass, if he breaches that he can be arrested for contempt of court.
4. Depending on the nature and quantity of the demands, you might be able to get the guards involved to investigate a breach of s. 17 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 Extortion or Demanding Money with menaces or s. 10 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 Harassment

dendenz

Not being smart but it would be best to ask a solicitor or the Citizens Advice Bureau instead of a bunch of strangers on an internet forum


http://www.cidb.ie/live.nsf/WebPages/Contents.html

Thats a link there for them

Check them out in the golden pages or www.yellowpages.ie

Oriel

How much is he looking for?

LegacyUser

sinecurea wrote:

How much is he looking for?

€100 approx

LegacyUser

gabhain7 wrote:

He has no right to enter your property without your permission. Tell him to take it to court and inform him that he is not to enter your property in future.

If he persists:

1. You can use "reasonable force" to remove a tresspasser from your property.
2. When he sues you for breach of contract, you can enter a counter-claim for tresspass.
3. You can get an injunction restraining tresspass, if he breaches that he can be arrested for contempt of court.
4. Depending on the nature and quantity of the demands, you might be able to get the guards involved to investigate a breach of s. 17 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 Extortion or Demanding Money with menaces or s. 10 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 Harassment

I informed the Gardai and they paid him a visit where he admited that what he had done. He admitted placing his foot in the door. I think he has shot himself in the foot now by admitting to a Garda that he has trespassed.

I will deffo counter claim for trespass and call the Garda as a witness to his admission of trespass.

Thanks so far for your help.

StupidLikeAFox

wait a sec, he did a job for you and you didnt pay him?

[Jackass]

sinecurea wrote:

How much is he looking for?

Worried wrote:

€100 approx

What a twat! You'd swear his kids were starving and in rags (maybe they are ) No court (i would presume) would award him this money after what he has done, and for such a underwhelming amount at that! to add to the advice, get a guards report on the matter, i doubt the gaurd would attend a civil case of such insignificance, but that would be as good as having him there to give his statement. But other than that, you have a solid course of action laid out by previous posters, and he's certainly shot himself in the foot!

lomb

mayb just pay him 70-80 and get rid of him would be best

LegacyUser

I think if I were you I would worry. Serves you right for doing things on the cheap. By trying to save a few quid your going to cost yourself a fortune in legal bills and you may even get a good kicking.

Or u could pay €100 and it will all go away.

ChRoMe

At the time did you tell him you werent going to pay him? If you have a problem with the work you have to say it on the spot. You cant just wander off and after a week decide "nah that was **** I'm not going to pay"

Coz the way basic economics works is you can get goods and services in exchange for legal tender. You dont sound like you didnt keep up to your part of the bargain.

To the poster saying jeez its only a 100 quid. Cop on to yourself a 100quid is a lot of money to some people.

passive

You dont sound like you didnt keep up to your part of the bargain.

mmm...double negative

[Jackass]

ChRoMe wrote:

To the poster saying jeez its only a 100 quid. Cop on to yourself a 100quid is a lot of money to some people.

Enough to harrass somebody over, put your foot in their door, tresspass and get a police cation over?

I was putting his actions into perspective as a court would do...not saying €100 is wothless....it's a lot more money than i have in my bank account right now!

StupidLikeAFox

sure, the guy handled the situation badly, but the OP was in the wrong for not paying up for the work. Brought it on himself tbh. This sounds like the classic case for Judge Judy

Our man in Havana

Enough to harrass somebody over, put your foot in their door, tresspass and get a police cation over?

I would think that he would be extremely foolish to persue the €100 after the visit from the Gardai. I am sure the damages for tresspass would be far more than €100.

MojoMaker

Damages for trespass??

The poster failed to pay up for work completed on her car and instead of approaching the issue legally by lodging a complaint with the organisation with whom she wasn't satisfied, contacting her solicitor and and arranging legal correspondance, she simply vanishes and refuses to pay the bloke that is owed the money. It's like leaving a restaurant without paying because you didn't like the meal, however not by registering a complaint with the manager first and explaining your point of view, by simply going to the bathroom and sneaking out the back door.

Our man in Havana

Trespass is a tort no matter the way it was done. The usual remedy is money. I guess the two would cancel each other out.

dermot_sheehan

MojoMaker wrote:

Damages for trespass??

The poster failed to pay up for work completed on her car and instead of approaching the issue legally by lodging a complaint with the organisation with whom she wasn't satisfied, contacting her solicitor and and arranging legal correspondance, she simply vanishes and refuses to pay the bloke that is owed the money. It's like leaving a restaurant without paying because you didn't like the meal, however not by registering a complaint with the manager first and explaining your point of view, by simply going to the bathroom and sneaking out the back door.

Trespass is actionable per se, that is you don't have to prove financial loss to get damages. Obviously in assessing the amount, the court would have regard to the nature of the trespass.

The issue of a breach of contract is another matter. 2 wrongs don't make a right. If the court finds there was a valid contract, and that the poster was in the wrong in breaking it, it will award damages against him. It will ofset the damages he should receive for trespass, as the other person was in the wrong for trespassing.

As with many torts, there are potential criminal issues as well. As I stated above, persistent harassment could be a criminal matter. In addition, if the guards think the poster had the work done with no intention of paying for it, they could look into prosecution for obtaining services by deception.

It is highly unlikey this would result in a criminal prosecution. The guards would simply regard this as a civil matter. Given the relatively trivial amount involved, it would be better for both parties if they could settle this between themselves.

koneko

"Worried",

After he did the job you weren't satisfied with, what did you do? Did you write a letter, complain, or did you just ignore him when he asked for payment? What exactly has happened before it's gotten to this point of him sticking his foot in your door? Be honest.

qwertz

Hi worried!

Why don't you just go to his office/home with a witness and offer him half of the money and explain to him that the job he did was not to your satisfaction. This guy obviously is a bit of an idiot and might come back and throw stones through your windows or set your car on fire. No point fighting with that kind of people.

Our man in Havana

qwertz wrote:

Hi worried!

Why don't you just go to his office/home with a witness and offer him half of the money and explain to him that the job he did was not to your satisfaction. This guy obviously is a bit of an idiot and might come back and throw stones through your windows or set your car on fire. No point fighting with that kind of people.

I doubt he would do something as stupid as he would be imediately the chief suspect. I would expect that the Gardai have marked his cards now.

Cute_Button

Regardless of the relative merits of the case- you have two totally seperate freestanding incidents here.
First of all- the sum of money you owe him- you owe him this money. Its entirely possible that there may be a dispute reconcilliation procedure to be followed. Its pretty obvious that if one exists, its been ignored. Explore what avenues are open to you here. Do it sooner rather than later.
Secondly- the case of trespass. He is clearly in wrong, probably knows it, and is unlikely to dispute it.

While related, they are two freestanding issues from a legal viewpoint.

Even if you were annoyed at the work carried out on your car- by not paying for it- you are automatically in the wrong. Unfortunately you've now sold the car, so its a dispute that is unlikely to ever be solved. I know 100 Euro may sound like a lot of money, and it is. However, in todays world it simply does not go a long way. For example- I locked the car keys in the boot (was unsure as to whether this was where they were or not). It cost me 125 Euro to have a guy open the car (which I was shocked took less than 10 seconds). The alternate was to break a window- which I was quoted 140 Euro for (before I rang the guy to open the door instead).

Do you get a quotation (written would be nice) for the work (whatever it was) prior to giving him the go-ahead- and how did the end result differ from what you were quoted?

Also as Koneko says- how did your dissatisfaction with his work end up with him sticking his foot in your door?

I'd be interested in hearing your answer!

ChRoMe

Dont think someone liked the responses they got. All quiet on the western front.

pickarooney

I wonder did the OP sell a car with a fault in it (whatever wasn't properly fixed) without mentioning it to the buyer.

Wow, €125 to open a car door - pretty sure any scanger would have done it for twenty quid.

LegacyUser

Actaully the car was impounded by the cops and was crushed.

I got some legal advice yesterday, jist was he trespassed he is wrong which negates his claim against me. I was told the damages would be far greater than the original debt.

I was advised to wait for his next move, if he has any sense there won't be a next move.

The_Conductor

pickarooney wrote:

Wow, €125 to open a car door - pretty sure any scanger would have done it for twenty quid.

I did something similar with my Fiat Punto not so long ago. I rang a number of security companies in the Golden Pages- before finding Peden Security who came out to do the job for me. All inclusive the price came to Euro 140 (including cutting a new spare key for me). The bulk of this charge related to the call-out, it was a Sunday evening, and I was more than a little bit stuck. Sure it was expensive, but its a lesson learnt.

Worried- I'm not even going to ask how your car managed to get impounded and crushed- the whole story seems like a mess. I hope the legal advice you got was from a reputable source- everyone could do without a day in the courts.

pickarooney

Sorry to go OT again, but how do you prove to the locksmith guy that it's your car?

The_Conductor

pickarooney wrote:

Sorry to go OT again, but how do you prove to the locksmith guy that it's your car?

Well, in my case- it was parked outside my door, and the keys for locking the door were in it. It was impossible to see the keys (it was an educated guess on my part that they were in the car- I couldn't see them). He didn't ask for identification though- so yes, I could have been paying him to break into someone's car for me. Then again- how many people would be sad enough to break into a Fiat Punto?

LegacyUser

If some tosser decided not to pay money owed to me I would make sure the individual concerned paid one way or another.

This thread smacks of hypocrisy and was penned by the kind of snivelling wet that will get whats coming to him

Victor

waftyflute wrote:

If some tosser decided not to pay money owed to me I would make sure the individual concerned paid one way or another.

This thread smacks of hypocrisy and was penned by the kind of snivelling wet that will get whats coming to him

Those comments are possibly quite unfair (and do stretch into insults). While there are lots of dodgy customers out there, there are also dodgy mechanics.

RainyDay

OldCustomer wrote:

The guy's remedy is to sue you in the Small Claims Court. This will cost him about €10. No solicitors are involved - you will both conduct your own case. Then the judge will decide. You are not going to get damages for trespass or anything like that. Ignore the other OTT advice in this thread. BTW I'm a lawyer.

Strange - I'd have expected a lawyer to know that a business cannot take a Small Claims Court case against a consumer. Consumers can sue businesses, but not vice vearsa. From Courts Service - Small Claims Procedure

The type of claims that can be dealt with are:

(a) a claim in respect of goods or services bought for private use from someone selling them in the course of a business (consumer claims)

(b) a claim in respect of minor damage to property (but excluding personal injuries)

(c) a claim in respect of the non-return of a rent deposit

provided that it does not exceed €1,269.74.

dendenz

waftyflute wrote:

If some tosser decided not to pay money owed to me I would make sure the individual concerned paid one way or another.

This thread smacks of hypocrisy and was penned by the kind of snivelling wet that will get whats coming to him

Then when we find the shoddy workmanship we sue the bollo<ks off you, works two ways really doesnt it ?