Pistol App and home security

Vinniew

Hi,

Some info from our club's AGM re. Pistol icense Applications:

Seems all the "Supers " received a directive on applicants security requirements:

1/Gun Safe (fixed to solid wall)
2/Seperate Ammo safe (as above)
3/House alarmed with monitored system.
4/Gun safe/room where it is stored on seperate zone on alarm system.
5/Licenses will be issued for Target shooting only.

BEFORE anyone jumps and decides to tell me I'm wrong.....I'm sure that local Supers will have their own variation on the above requirements.......all of lifes rich tapestry!

Further to this: I was told to put a lockable secure box in my vehicle (secured to the vehicle) for safe transport of a pistol to the range.

hth

Vinnie

civdef

This tallies well with what's being asked for in my own case anyway.

It would appear the Guards will frown on people carrying pistols to the range tucked into the front of their trousers gangsta-style.

Vinniew

I actually know a guy called Stan who used to do that......actually he's called Loretta now...

Sparks

Seems all the "Supers " received a directive on applicants security requirements:

O-eck.
Wasn't that exactly what kicked off Dunne v. Donoghue in the first place? :eek:

civdef

It depends on whether the directive is compulsory or just "guidance". The original gunsafe directive was mandatory, and superintendents weren't allowed deviate from it. If this new one just sets out "best practice/helpful advice/whatever", then in theory the super is free to ignore it, as they are legally entitled to.

E@gle.

I dont know whats the big deal with security that Vinniew mentioned about a pistol. if a .270 was stolen from your house it could do a lot more damage that a pistol.

Sparks

E@gle. wrote:

I dont know whats the big deal with security that Vinniew mentioned about a pistol. if a .270 was stolen from your house it could do a lot more damage that a pistol.

True, but pistols are used more in crimes because of their greater ease of concealment. Bolt-action .270s aren't exactly a criminal's ideal tool. Maybe a fullbore SLR would hold some interest, but anyone thinking of using one of those for a robbery or whatever would be more likely to be looking to get a fully-automatic weapon and those would be smuggled in, not stolen from a legitimate owner (since, as Des Crofton put it, there never have been any machine gun licences issued in the state).

To be honest, I can understand the higher degree of concern over security for pistols than for rifles. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't be allowed have them, you understand, just that I can see why they'd be more worried about people stealing sidearms.

Rew

Pistols are easier to conceal and just as deadly at close range. Long rifles dont lend them selfs to indoor/close quarters situations.

Id like to see sombody stick a .270 down their pants gangsta style

E@gle.

Rew wrote:

Id like to see sombody stick a .270 down their pants gangsta style

You just would not know what they would do. saw-off .270


But the fact is most crimnals that want a pistol can get one smullged in. more than likely.

civdef

Id like to see sombody stick a .270 down their pants gangsta style

OK, let me be the first to mention the obvious joke:

"Is that a 270 in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

Even though it's costing me beaucoup euro, I'm not opposed to the provision of enhanced security for pistols. One thing worries me though, how secure are the security companies? The security industry in this country has a few (or more) bad apples. If one of them had access to the alarm monitoring records, they would find a helpful list of what premises contain licenced firearms (it's on the NSAI standard form). Are data protection / security measures in place to prevent the risk of this data getting in the wrong hands?

Fallschirmjager

civdef wrote:

OK, let me be the first to mention the obvious joke:

"Is that a 270 in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

or dare i say looking back at stan that became loretta then it would become stan THE man....

Fallschirmjager

civdef wrote:

OK, let me be the first to mention the obvious joke:


Even though it's costing me beaucoup euro, I'm not opposed to the provision of enhanced security for pistols. One thing worries me though, how secure are the security companies? The security industry in this country has a few (or more) bad apples. If one of them had access to the alarm monitoring records, they would find a helpful list of what premises contain licenced firearms (it's on the NSAI standard form). Are data protection / security measures in place to prevent the risk of this data getting in the wrong hands?

on the more serious note Civ..i actuall saw an ISO certified alarm van not 1 month ago that INSTILLED alarms not INSTALLED them...but i think you have raised a very good point here....

fiacha

civdef wrote:

Even though it's costing me beaucoup euro, I'm not opposed to the provision of enhanced security for pistols. One thing worries me though, how secure are the security companies? The security industry in this country has a few (or more) bad apples. If one of them had access to the alarm monitoring records, they would find a helpful list of what premises contain licenced firearms (it's on the NSAI standard form). Are data protection / security measures in place to prevent the risk of this data getting in the wrong hands?

good point.

when you purchase ammo, does the dealer include your address in the log book ? i have often seen these left unattended on the gunshop counter. another nice source of info for the bad apples.

civdef

does the dealer include your address in the log book

Yes.

Sparks

Fallschirmjager wrote:

on the more serious note Civ..i actuall saw an ISO certified alarm van not 1 month ago that INSTILLED alarms not INSTALLED them...

Sounds accurate to me. I mean, you took one look and it instilled alarm in you, didn't it?

mcguiver

GANSTA STYLE CARRYING.... In the states thats referred to as"TESTICIDE"

Irishglockfan

A hacksaw engineerd 270 "pistol" would be about as accurate, useful and effective as an ashtray on a motorbike!

Remember most of our criminals havent got the time,inclination or knowledge to learn how to use a big calibre rifle properly.most of their shooting techniques comes from "gangsta" style boyz in da hood Hollyweird movies.[note the sideways holding of handguns that is effected over here and the UK.]If it is in the movies it must be real.a fortunate advantage for those in the know how to shoot properly.Sawn off shotguns and handguns are their forte ,or spray and pray with full auto up close and personal if they can get and afford the ammo.

Even though it's costing me beaucoup euro, I'm not opposed to the provision of enhanced security for pistols.

Yeah,but when does it become stupid???? a 5grand alarm system for a 100 euro pocket 22 pistol?

One thing worries me though, how secure are the security companies? The security industry in this country has a few (or more) bad apples. If one of them had access to the alarm monitoring records, they would find a helpful list of what premises contain licenced firearms (it's on the NSAI standard form). Are data protection / security measures in place to prevent the risk of this data getting in the wrong hands?

Yup after just coming back from a security conference in Dublin,i can tell you hoew to find a good one,if there is such.
the private security act 2004 is now LAW.It applies to all security fields.
most security companies should be signed up with the irish security industry authorithy.if they dont know about the company,they WILL want to know about them.
Ask the company are they registerd with the ISIA?are they ISO 9000 qualified?Are they signatories to the data protection act?do they have private indemnity insurance.NOT public liability.The former will cost a security company between 5 and 20 thousand a year and is difficult if not impossible to get here.Who will have access to your information?What is their vetting procedures of personel?can they give checkable references?
Any security company will be only too glad to provide this info for new clients.the most important are the ISIA membership,they run a pretty tight ship.

Thing that worries me is that if your super is pushing for some alarm system monitored by only ONE security company.Is this company being run by somone from the "Templemore old boys blue knit tie club"??? Has been known to happen.
Data protection is important but quite frankly IMHO a sick joke around here.

Best advice get the cabinet for the long guns,[E100 appx] a argos safe for the ammo and/or handguns,[E50 appx]bolt them in,buy the best GSM monitored alarm system you can[talk to me,i will mail some info to you and do a deal for these to shooters]
and get phone watch.you have a monitored phone alarm system and another GSM seperate in the "gun room" area.That should satisfy any superintendants
fears.After that it is unreasonable IMO to want any more.After that you are into "fort knox" syndrome.

Sparks

Glock, have you thought about writing up a brief introduction to basic security for storing firearms to put up on the web?

Irishglockfan

Can do if you would like me to do so.

Traumadoc

mcguiver wrote:

GANSTA STYLE CARRYING.... In the states thats referred to as"TESTICIDE"

It happens in Ireland too!
I had a patient a few years back who presented with a wound to the upper inner thigh and related areas, he apparently had a sawn off shotgun in his pocket which discharged as he climbed over a fence, the urology team managed to save one of his balls.

Irishglockfan

Amazing he had anything left at all!!Not to mind that he was alive.I have heard of the 45 vasectomy,but a 12ga vasectomy?

civdef

I had a patient a few years back who presented with a wound to the upper inner thigh and related areas, he apparently had a sawn off shotgun in his pocket which discharged as he climbed over a fence, the urology team managed to save one of his balls.

Did it go off half-cocked?

Traumadoc

civdef wrote:

Did it go off half-cocked?

He came in with a half-cocked story of a jealous lover seeking revenge.

Rovi

Traumadoc wrote:

the urology team managed to save one of his balls

I have to ask, what did they do with it???

Traumadoc wrote:

He came in with a half-cocked story of a jealous lover seeking revenge.

Reminds me of a quote from Thurgood Marshall (first African-American justice of the Supreme Court of the United States)-
"I expect to die at 110, shot by a jealous husband."

An admirable ambition, in my opinion


.

Traumadoc

Traumadoc wrote:

It happens in Ireland too!
I had a patient a few years back who presented with a wound to the upper inner thigh and related areas, he apparently had a sawn off shotgun in his pocket which discharged as he climbed over a fence, the urology team managed to save one of his balls.

On his way to MacDowells house was he??

Fallschirmjager

OKAY ENUF!!!!


i have not been able to walk straight for the last 2 days...and i am now wearing pants so baggy i look like some fecking failed hippy....please no more testicle stuff...



a sawn off shotgun in his pants...jeeze what was he thinking...oh god i am have to walk around again now...poor guy..... :eek:


it just amazes me, people will read this and think ban guns..rather then..jeeze that fella is not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer...

Renegade_Archer

So this means for a 10m airpistol(that shoots pellets, one at a time) Im going to have to satisfy the above requirements? Would they willing to waive that if I promised / got it in writing that I would be storing my IZH at my club? Possible? Hard enough to afford a decent gun, and whilst I can understand the need to lock up a lethal weapon, Im not in the finacial situation to afford 2 safes and an alarm

Sparks

Hopefully not RA, the whole advantage of the system of leaving it to the discretion of the local super is that common sense can come into it. Show him a pellet, show him a photo of the IZH-41M and odds are that much less strenous measures would be required. (A pistol safe can be quite inexpensive compared to proper-sized gun safes. Hell, you can even get one with a fingerprint lock for less than the price of the more basic rifle safes...)

gouda

Sparks wrote:

Hopefully not RA, the whole advantage of the system of leaving it to the discretion of the local super is that common sense can come into it. Show him a pellet, show him a photo of the IZH-41M and odds are that much less strenous measures would be required. (A pistol safe can be quite inexpensive compared to proper-sized gun safes. Hell, you can even get one with a fingerprint lock for less than the price of the more basic rifle safes...)

Hmmmm. Just a thought, would it not leave the Super open to a charge of discrimination? I mean , a pistol is a pistol,yes? Interesting to get a definitive response on this one.

Sparks

gouda wrote:

Hmmmm. Just a thought, would it not leave the Super open to a charge of discrimination? I mean , a pistol is a pistol,yes? Interesting to get a definitive response on this one.

I seriously doubt that such a case would get past an initial reading by a judge unless someone was playing silly buggers. Comparing an air pistol with a muzzle energy of less than seven joules to a 1911 with a muzzle energy of around 450 joules isn't an exercise that could leave many people classifying them as being equally dangerous.
Unless, of course, you were thinking of the danger that results from throwing the pistol at other people