Failed pushes

gimmick

Im trying to think of another huge push that was given to a Wrestler, which failed as spectacularly as Ortons, but cant think of one that came even close. We are 53 days from WM21, and he isnt even in a feud. This after the initial plan was for him to HEADLINE the damn thing.

Anyone got any ideas? To be fair most pushes given were deserved, and worked. Though the only others I can think of are those of Goldberg (the fans never cared), Steiner (would have worked as a heel on SD!), and Kevin Nash in his last WWE run (his best days behind him).

Mr.Nice Guy

You can't think of a push that failed as spectacularly as Orton's?
One word:Eugene!
Remember the hype about Eugene when he first arrived and how his popularity went through the roof until SS at Toronto and the fans booed him out of the building!He was then sent to mid-card.

From what I hear,these concussions will be used to explain him reverting back to a heel.I've heard there's a chance he'll face Cena at WM as if you remember back to SS,he and Cena had a confrontation.
Cena will likely be facing JBL for the title though so I don't know who he'll face.Personally I want to see Orton vs Hogan at WM21!

D-FENS

Lex Luger's push in '93 has to be the classed as the biggest failure.
Vince thought he coulkd make him to new Hogan when he sent him out to bodyslam Yokosuna and then challenge him fot the belt, but the fans just did'nt care.Not even when he went around around the country, drumming up support on a big bus.How did that fail?! I just don't understand it.

Brow

Some recent ones including Mordecai or Hirohito (now Kenzo) instantly spring to mind. I dont remember Big Show being to popular initially and was sent to OVW several times to brush up.

gimmick

Eugenes push and Ortons push cant be compared. When Eugene came about first, he was expected to be lower middle card, and to feud with a heel Regal eventually. The fact that he was a major part in a HHH storyline leading to there own feud, suggest a very successful push.

Mordecai was never pushed per se. He came in with an old school gimmick, which Vince believed would work well to contrast against the Taker eventually. He was given air-time, but not pushed. Look at it this way, who did he ever fight? Billy Gunn and Scotty. He is back at OVW being re-packaged, and will be back, possibly in a similar tag team gimmick, but called the Disyples Of Sinn. Partner - Tomko!

The initial plan for Kenzo was to push him to main event almost immediately. Once the apathy of the crowds was seen, this planned push was immediately shelved. Hhhmmm, maybe thats the worst push ever. Shelved before it even started.

Im surprised I forgot about Luger - What a loser.

Mr.Nice Guy

gimmick wrote:

Eugenes push and Ortons push cant be compared. When Eugene came about first, he was expected to be lower middle card, and to feud with a heel Regal eventually. The fact that he was a major part in a HHH storyline leading to there own feud, suggest a very successful push.

Of course the two can be compared.Both enjoyed a huge surge in popularity and both had Triple H interfere and to desire a feud with them.
Eugene was arguably pushed more than Orton.The Eugene dolls,the PPV offerings on Eugene's WWE career,big matches(like the one with Benoit where he held his own),interfering in the Iron man match with Triple H and Benoit,the Eugnee/Evolution storyline.

All of that build-up only for it to fall apart at Summerslam.Now he's injured but before that he was jobbing to everyone-Snitsky,Edge etc.
His push was a disaster.I agree that he wasn't expected to be a big hit originally,but when he was,the WWE really got behind him but they failed drastically...

gimmick

^^^

Eugenes push was unplanned, and not rammed down the fans thoats. His push happened as naturally as a scripted push can be.

Orton? Well he lost the IC title, was WH Champ within 4-5 weeks, lost it 3 1/2 wks later, and for the next 4 months closed out Raw, and headlined a number of PPVs. The fans werent into it. Maybe they were for about 2 weeks after beating Benoit and losing to HHH, but in general, apathetic.

The wwe expected that the fans wanted to see him at the top. they were wrong. They saw his heel persona was getting over with the fans, so they obviously thought a face Orton would fit the bill completely. The proof of the pudding is Ortons current status - nowhere, lost in the mix. Not his fault admittedly, as to be fair, he is still a rookie, and the wwe invested their future in him too fast.

Mr.Nice Guy

Eugene's push was rammed down the fan's throats as soon as Triple H saw his popualrity and decided to get involved.Before that it had gone alright,but the Evolution storyline was crap.
Bottom line is,if you are enjoying a good level of popularity and Triple H decides to feud with you,chances are you'll suffer.Look at guys Triple H has faced in recent years-Scott Steiner,Kevin Nash,Eugene,Orton.All these guys had popularity at some stage but it was misused and eventually the fans turned on these people.

I would argue that Orton wasn't pushed enough or rather that he was pushed in the wrong direction.They completely forgot what his character was built on.As a heel he was an ***hole and then all of a sudden we're supposed to like him just because he got his *ss kicked?

My view is that he never should've beaten Benoit in the first place and that it was only done to get back at Lesnar.If they wanted him as a face they should have had Triple H prevent him from becoming a champion at SS.
Alot of fans(like me)felt he was undeserving of his success and his position now is the result.

D-FENS

Agree with both of you on certain points lads.
Eugene did'nt debut with the idea of pushing him all the way to main event, not even WWe writers could think a wrestling Rainman could be one of the company's top guys.No, they latched onto his quick popularity and used it, and HHH decided to dop the program with him leading up to SS, just so there was a storyline reason for him to be out of the title hunt for a little while and give Orton the shot.Now unlike Eugene, Orton has been earmarked for glory for about two years now, ever since Evolution started, everyone knows that.Different opinions on why he was pushed too soon alright - HHH wanted it so Orton would peak too early and be blown out by, well now.Making him the youngest champ so Lesnar is no longer in the records books could be another reason, although technically Lesnar is still the youngest WWE champ, Randy is the youngest Raw world champ.Another, less conspiracy theory reason , wbe WWE honestly thought it was time to make younger stars champs, worked with Brock, but he was a bit special ability wise.Orton's just an average wrestler, but can be very good character wise as a heel.If he goes back to that soon and stays heel for a few years, maybe he would work as the company's top face later on, worked for the Rock.But Eugen's push could'nt be classed as a failure, he got alot more than he or anyone else palnned.His fifteen minutes of fame was never meant to be any more important than say - "Horowitz wins ! , Horowitz wins ! , Horowitz wins ! "

Brow

I wouldnt consider Ehugens push a failure. As many have already said they never expected such poopularity for a gimmick that was kinda controversial. They just kinda rode the wave till it fizzled out.

gimmick

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I would argue that Orton wasn't pushed enough or rather that he was pushed in the wrong direction.

Orton not pushed enough? Good God man, it was the biggest push I have ever seen for a guy with below average ring ability.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

My view is that he never should've beaten Benoit in the first place

I agree with you on that. Benoit title loss was anti climactic, and de-pushed him big time.

D-Fens wrote:

unlike Eugene, Orton has been earmarked for glory for about two years now,

The WWE is very high on Nick Dinsmore (Eugene). He is seen as a major future star, and the way he has done the Eugene character will have helped his stock no end. WWE is about money. Dinsmore, with his Eugene character has made alot of that.

D-FENS

gimmick wrote:

The WWE is very high on Nick Dinsmore (Eugene). He is seen as a major future star, and the way he has done the Eugene character will have helped his stock no end. WWE is about money. Dinsmore, with his Eugene character has made alot of that.

Let me ask you this, Gimmick, when Dennis Knight started streaking WWF arenas a few years ago, and actually got a European title shot against Regal out of it on a PPV, then disappeared again, was that a failed push?
No, it was one of WWE's running jokes that they ran with until everyone stops laughing.
Same with Eugene. Now I know he's a lot more popular than Naked Mideon, but as far as WWE always seeing him as a major star, do you honestly think they looked at him in OVW and said "We're going to give him the same personality as Warren from "There's Something about Mary" and he'll be as big as the Rock?
No, they see him as being a popular mid carder like Jim Duggan or George Steele in the past, making money for sure , but not threatening the title picture unless it's for a one night novelty match or storyline.
The guy can wrestle, and if they changed his character in the future, made him a bit less naive and able to think for himself instead of giving people wet willies and being led around by Regal, then he could possible escalate.
But the whole storyline with HHH last year was just WWE chancing their arm on the basis of his rapport with the fans, and when it wore out , no one was surprised or any the worse off.
In that respect, it can't be classed as a failed push, everyone expected it to continue for long.

gimmick

I see your point, but the difference between the likes of Dinsmore and Knight is that Dinsmore has charisma, and just as importantly - great inring skills. AFAIK it was Dinsmore himself who suggested the Eugene character. He would have hardly done that if he felt it would be a good short term gimmich, which would hurt his future career.

As for the question do I think the Eugene character was a failed push? Absolutely no way. As I said above

Eugenes push was unplanned, and not rammed down the fans thoats. His push happened as naturally as a scripted push can be.

it was fun, and more succesful than anyone, Dinsmore included could have dreamt.

Firewalkwithme

The fans did want Orton to turn face against Evolution but Orton changed for the worse when he did make the split. If you look at any of his promo's since he left Evolution, he regularly messes up lines and in general looks very uncomfortable. His ring work has suffered too and I think it's a case of too much pressure. I believe he was more relaxed and confident when he was in the company of the 'old hands' HHH and Flair but he is feeling the pressure too much now he is not shielded by a group. Basically, he hadn't got the mic skills and he was pushed, not too soon, but in the wrong direction. Consider Batista's position when Orton was still in Evolution. Everyone was saying that he couldn't work but when Orton left his star rose dramatically. Let's hope the same thing doesn't happen to Batista now it's looking like he is going to leave Evolution too.

D-FENS

Despatch wrote:

The fans did want Orton to turn face against Evolution but Orton changed for the worse when he did make the split. If you look at any of his promo's since he left Evolution, he regularly messes up lines and in general looks very uncomfortable. His ring work has suffered too and I think it's a case of too much pressure. I believe he was more relaxed and confident when he was in the company of the 'old hands' HHH and Flair but he is feeling the pressure too much now he is not shielded by a group. Basically, he hadn't got the mic skills and he was pushed, not too soon, but in the wrong direction. Consider Batista's position when Orton was still in Evolution. Everyone was saying that he couldn't work but when Orton left his star rose dramatically. Let's hope the same thing doesn't happen to Batista now it's looking like he is going to leave Evolution too.

`

Good point, however Big Dave does'nt look like he'd lack confidence in any situation.
News sites are reporting Orton is feeling the strain alright.
Plus he's no longer allowed travel even travel with HHH and the boys, as it would be seen to break character in public.

Firewalkwithme

D-FENS wrote:

Big Dave does'nt look like he'd lack confidence in any situation.

I'm not so sure about that. Remember how confident Orton appeared before he left Evolution? Added to that, the fact that Batista barely spoke a word on tv until recently, I think he'll choke too, just like Orton.

Brow

I'd love to see Batista do well but i dont think he has the mic skills.

Mr.Nice Guy

gimmick wrote:

Orton not pushed enough? Good God man, it was the biggest push I have ever seen for a guy with below average ring ability.

I meant in terms of his character's development.The face turn happened the night after he won the title.They should have dragged it out a bit more.
Orton also should've remained a cocky guy as a face,the way Jericho has but instead he became like some sort of modern-day version of Sting in the early nineties.I think the WWE writers let him down.

Personally I haven't liked him as a heel or a face.I'm a big Benoit fan so when he managed to beat him cleanly I was never going to support him!

As for Batista,I also think he will flop.His storyline is excellent but when it ends and he beomes an enemy of Triple H,the pressure will be on.
Batista's wrestling skills are not up to scratch and his music is not good enough for a face.I hope they change it.
The fact is WM21's main event will rely on Triple H to carry most of the match and while he has done well in this role in the past,he has also done badly-Steiner,Goldberg etc.

elvis2002

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I think the WWE writers let him down.

Ortan let himself down, he's just a very boring boring wrestler.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Batista's wrestling skills are not up to scratch and his music is not good enough for a face.I hope they change it.
The fact is WM21's main event will rely on Triple H to carry most of the match and while he has done well in this role in the past,he has also done badly-Steiner,Goldberg etc.

Batista's music is brilliant, it really pumps you up. I hope they dont really turn batista face but just keep him a a bad mother f u cker kicking anybody ass who comes near him.

Mr.Nice Guy

elvis2002 wrote:

Ortan let himself down, he's just a very boring boring wrestler.

Well how do you explain his popularity as a heel after his matches with Foley at WM and Backlash?

elvis2002 wrote:

Batista's music is brilliant, it really pumps you up. I hope they dont really turn batista face but just keep him a a bad mother f u cker kicking anybody ass who comes near him.

Come on,his music is lame.He needs a pumping tune that will get people on their feet screaming...

Brow

I like his music to be honest...i'd say they'll change it after Wrestlemania.

Mr.Nice Guy

Brow wrote:

I like his music to be honest...i'd say they'll change it after Wrestlemania.

His music isn't the worst but he needs something better if he's main-eventing WM.

gimmick

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Well how do you explain his popularity as a heel after his matches with Foley at WM and Backlash?

Simply because of Foley.

If you look at any good Orton match, it was because of his opponent. Edge, Benoit, Foley, HBK, Flair have all carried him through good matches.

Look then when he is in the ring with HHH. Bore, Yawn, they may get a tad exciting because of a major bump or something.

Ortons push may have worked as a heel, as as a heel wrestling ability isnt as important due to cheating etc. But as a face, he was found out.

Should be an interesting feud with Christian, but then, that will be down to Christains abilty rather than Randys.

Mr.Nice Guy

Well I agree with you that in most of those matches he was carried but don't you feel the writers could've helped him out?Look at Batista,he isn't the greatest wrestler in the world by any means but his storyline is a good one and it keeps the fans interested.
I am no Orton fan but I'd rate his ability over Batista's so why do the fans like Batista over Orton?I feel it is because the writers let Orton down just like they've let other faces down-RVD,Benoit,Jericho etc.

gimmick

One word - JEALOUSY. The majority of WWE fans are guys. Orton, by all accounts, is a very handsome young man. Men dont like having their insecurities being pointed out. Certainly not by a suppoosed good guy.

I dont feel the writers could have done much more with Orton. They gave him everything, he just couldnt hack it. As ive said millions of times, his in-ring work isnt the greatest. His face promos are one dimensional and boring.

Whether Batista goes over properly, only time will tell. I doubt he will though. His style isnt the greatest, though I am enjoying this storyline.

Brow

Bout time there was an enjoyable storyline...

gimmick

Seems he hasnt learnt his lesson. Mngt will have to do something about him.