Intermittent Starting Problem

Gryzor

hi ...i've a 95 323F 1.5 GLX....the other mornin i went out the door to go to work as usual...sat in, turned the key...engine turns over normally but doesn't catch...did this a few times....same result...didn't have time to go messin with it, i was late allready..:mad: came home that evenin.....sat in pumped the accelerator a few times...kept the foot down, turned the key...and she starts...bit of dirt in the fuel methinks and forgets about it....untill


saturday....just come back from being on the road for about half an hour....ran into the house to grab something...came back out...sat in, turned the key...same story again....pumped the pedal a few times....she catches, splutters and dies..:( ...after a few more attempts shes finally going

any ideas....a couple of mates i said it to...thougt the fuel pump might be at fault

these are the only 2 times in 2 years there has been any hassle starting her...

thanks

edmund_f

had a similar prob years ago, was told it couild be one of two things.. no fuel or no spark. to check the spark take one of the plugs out, leave it resting against the top of the engine (for earth) and get someone else to turn the engine over with the key.. if you have a spark, check all the rest, if they are are sparking then it is probably fuel, or pump, if it is spark it is your leads or distributor system..

in my case it was damp leads.. can of wd 40 sorted it pretty quickly. might be worth investing in one to try next time it will not start?. just spray on the leads to displace the moisture. right time of year to be damp leads..

Gryzor

edmund_f wrote:

in my case it was damp leads.. can of wd 40 sorted it pretty quickly. might be worth investing in one to try next time it will not start?. just spray on the leads to displace the moisture. right time of year to be damp leads..

must check when i get home.....is it when you pull the lead off the plug, that theres moisture in there...where it fits onto the plug??

$lash

Is it Carb or Injection?

Gryzor

$lash wrote:

Is it Carb or Injection?

injection

edmund_f

i am far from an expert here, just giing you my experience..

all i did was unscrew one of the plugs.. then leave the bottom part of the plug in contact with the head of the engine (the part of the plug with the thread on) with the lead still attached. Get someone else to turn the engine over and see if you can see a spark. not a good idea to hold the plug as you can get a kick off the spark. if it is sparking, replace and repeat.

all this is, is basic troubleshooting and will give you a very good idea where the problem is, will not fix anything, but at least you can rule out your ignition system and/or fuel pump.

Think (nto 100% sure on this) most Haynes manuals give similar troubleshooting advice, may be worth the investment. Perhaps have a look on the net for enthusasts websites, they may have some thoughts too.

If you have localised the problem, makes it a lot easer to go to a mechanic..

hope it helps, if in doubt bring it to a mechanic

$lash

Is there an immobiliser on the car...

Gryzor

$lash wrote:

Is there an immobiliser on the car...

no imobiliser


thanks for the advice edmund_f...i'll have to try and narrow it down allright..

been looking on some of the 323f sites...no real mention of the problem...

AMurphy

could be any of a number of simple things.
Electronic Distributor I'll assume. However does it have an excess fuel start injector or just as many as there are cylinders.

However first illiminate the easiest things to check. Sparks, You got the basics previously. However, if it has a distributor, and it is not firing, attach the plug directly to the coil wire, to insure it is not simply the cap/rotor. If nothing from the coil, then it is either Ig module or Coil, probably ig module, transistors in them fail frequently.

Next check for the fuel pump, when you turn on the ignition to RUN, the pump usually fires for a few sec to prime the system. Usually you can hear it buzzing. it will certainly be buzzing with the car ideling, so locate and identify the buzzing in or near the tank, unfortunately it may have 1 or 2 pumps.
Anyway, if the relay is gone/faulty, neither will work.

Pumping the accelerator usually does nothing for the fuel supply in an EFI engine at startup, unless it is already flooded, in which case it might help dry it out.. It's not connected to any pump item as with a carb.
If it were flooding, you'd have very wet sparkplugs if you removed one after failing to start.

Anyway, if this has an 5th injector for starting and it fails, it will be difficult to start, hot or cold, just worse when cold, however it should eventually start.
If the EFI engine temp sensor that may be attached to this inj is faulty, it may not be firing when required.
You can check the pulses to any of the injectors with a homemade LED+resistor tool. Teh LED will flash on the pulse.

Anyway, first off, I'd check the fuel supply and ignition.

stratos

Check the fuel filter my father had a 323 f many yrs ago, very tempermental about fuel filters.

Gryzor

well...brought the motor to the local mazda dealer to let them run their diagnostics on it.....came back fine...nothing showed up. they did tell me they were 90% sure it was the distributor...but they couldn't be 100% unless they had the car when it was giving trouble

anything i can do to try and confirm this...suppose if they couldn't i won't be able to either??? :mad:

thanks

edmund_f

perhaps keep a log of when the problem is happening, e.g. hot/cold engine, damp, car not run for a few days... might give you an idea where to start. still think the investment in a can of WD-40 would be worth it?

that or a different mechanic? (not implying anything negative on your mechanic.. but a second opinion helps?)

AMurphy

Gryzor wrote:

...... they did tell me they were 90% sure it was the distributor...but they couldn't be 100% unless they had the car when it was giving trouble

anything i can do to try and confirm this...suppose if they couldn't i won't be able to either??? :mad:

thanks

Maybe, maybe not.
Well at least we have established it does have a dist.
However, is it Injected, so you have a fuel pump.

How many miles on the Dist. Cap, Rotor, Wires, plugs?.
I more than 60K, I'd simply replace them.
A faulty Dist cap had me stumped for a morning once. (always first start in the morning). Finally figured out it was the cap, replaced... problem history.

So what tools do you have and how easy is it get the dist cap off.
What else do you know about the EFI setup?.
given the age and it having a dist. I'll assume it is uses the Distriputor pulse to drive the fuel pump circuit.
Therefore, here are a few items you can try/practice with, in advance of the next failure.

Check you hear the fuel pump buzz when you switch the ignition to RUN.
If you cannot, get someone else to turn the key to RUN while you listen at the tank end.
if nothing , there must be something wrong with your FP circuit.

Assuming there is a buzz. start the car and you should hear it continuously.
Now disconnectt he power supply to the coil and try starting again, I'd expect you hear the pump.
Disconnect the supply to the distributor and go again... I'd not expect to hear the pump.

So if you hear the pump during an attempted start, I'd expect the dist is OK. if not, I'd suspect it.
If you hear the pump and nothing else, I might suspect the electronic ignitor, not the dist. trigger.

Anyway, practice while the car is operationals. so you can sort out he various responses when it is not.

Gryzor

thanks for all the advice lads.....hope i can get this sorted.....zero interest in buying another car at the moment...