Society & Intelligence

I work in the IT sector. Part of my job is to provide technical assistance to customers for email, server support etc. As such a large percentage of my day consists of being on the phone answering peoples problems. The rest of my day consists of Credit Control/invoicing.

Now, the thing I've noticed is that people (customers) seem to be becoming less intelligent or rather too lazy to think for themselves. They have become so reliant on someone else answering their problems, that they won't spend 4-5 minutes trying to solve the problem themselves. In fact they'll delay calling for support for two-three days, with the problem occuring and hope that it'll fix itself. No effort or work expended to solve the issue at hand.

Now I remember when I first started using computers (admittedly over ten years ago) all support was handled by yourself. Anything went wrong and you had to learn how to fix it. Or it remained broken or inoperative. People tended to have the drive and even curiousity to see how things worked, and find the best way to resolve issues.

This is not just related to the IT sector, but rather any piece of technology, even to the point of TV's and DVD players....

What I'm curious about, is whether ye guys (Gals) have noticed this trend aswell?

MeatProduct

Klaz, in my opinion this certainly seems to be a trend. A rather sad one at that because it is not limited to things technological in nature. Humanity is trying to shift the responsibility more and more. This ranges from the individual level through to the national and world level. The actions of governments are mirroring the attitude of the average Joe on the street. Even though many would deny this we all have a more sinister side that some choose to repress and shun, but it remains unexpressed and will ultimately have consequences.

Once people become responsible for every action and thought they have then the human race will take a large evolutionary step.

Nick

DadaKopf

I don't know about it being a lack of 'intelligence', whatever that is. It's probably the consequence of Ireland's transformation into an advanced services economy.

CerebralCortex

It seems to me to be a result of culture and upbringing. The whole effect of primary school I think is instead of nurturing a persons intuitive abilities it crushes it instead and leaves person only using their mind when they need to(mind you its been a while since I was in primary school). I personally feel thats what Irish education has done to me. Alot of effort has to go into getting on well in the education system and the only gain is the right to college (points) which has to be paid for anyway, to me that seems rather oppressive.
Don't get me wrong it is not nesscessarily the curriculum but more how a student is made to feel about his abilities.

DadaKopf

A Swiss political scientist in UCD said to me a few years ago that he reckoned it was all due to the Irish mother complex (which may or may not relate to schooling, or colonialism). I'm sure it's an element, but people's brains always seem to be a bit of a wild card and people shouldn't really generalise too much.

But America's famous for this trend and a lot of it seems to be down to it being a huge services economy, even though individualism and self-sufficiency are deeply ingrained in the national psyche. It's a contradictory mix - the market is supposed to make people more self-reliant but it actually creates a hierarchy of rulers, drones and mongos.

Sleepy

I work in a support role too and I have to agree, a lot of issues I deal with are caused by pure and utter laziness. Granted the company I work for tend to mainly deal with state/semi-state organisations so the problem is probably more engrained in our clients than most given their heavy demarcation principles (I seriously doubt that some of these people would even make their own tea because that's the tea lady's job). but I see it in every day life too...

davej

I work in the IT sector. Part of my job is to provide technical assistance to customers for email, server support etc.

It's funny, I would consider the opposite situation as being equally problematic.
i.e. The support staff are often the ones who can't grasp the problem you have and try to oversimplify things. They'll do anything to close the call log etc..

Basically people want as easy a life as possible. The problem is, of course, if the prevailing mentality is that everyone wants an easy life then *nobody* will have it easy.

davej

ixoy

I've noticed it alright. People have a real attitude of: Why can't someone else do it.

We even see it on Boards sometimes when a quick moment or two on Google will answer someone's query on, for example (but not limited to), the Computers board. We expect an answer, here and now.

I've spent a few years in the e-learning field and the trend is engrained there. You're not allowed assume knowledge in any form. Everything has to be explained and pointed out even though, often, you're stating the obvious or pointing out something that a learner should be able to work out by applying the most basic of reasoning. But no - we're trained to act as if people are cabbages, without any cognotivite abilities whatsoever. From what this thread is saying, perhaps it's actually what's happening out there...

Kell

Deleted User wrote:

What I'm curious about, is whether ye guys (Gals) have noticed this trend aswell?

Defintely a trend, but I think from lack of interest as opposed to outright stupidity and laziness.

If a person isnt interested in the subject to hand, they will generally display apathy and laziness, whereas if they are actually interested in what they are doing then they display at least a modicom of intelligence. Your average PAYE worker couldnt give a toss if they cant use their PC for half an hour. Its actually a benefit seein as they can doss for the half hour, and this is certainly true of Irish culture.

There are very few Irish companies that I have dealt with that equate downtime to lost user productivity. I am in IT sales, and whereas I could speak to an English person and equate x downtime to lost productivity to justify a sale, you cant do that with the Irish punter. Most of them just dont care.

Added to that, everything in life is getting increasingly easier. 50yrs ago you virtually needed a PHD to operate a single lens reflex camera. Now its all point and shoot. Computers were the size of large rooms, now you can fit em in yer shoe, they break less and they're cheaper. With that trend, its not surprising that people dont give a toss about fixing stuff, they just replace.

Someone rasied the point of primary schooling as well which I agree with. I was a bright pupil generally finishing well ahead of the class when it came to times to complete exercises correctly. Upon completion, I would wander and chat to friends. Instead of teacher recognising the need to work me harder, they instead complained about disruptive behaviour. This is typical of our education system.

K-

DadaKopf

DadaKopf wrote:

A Swiss political scientist in UCD said to me a few years ago that he reckoned it was all due to the Irish mother complex (which may or may not relate to schooling, or colonialism). I'm sure it's an element, but people's brains always seem to be a bit of a wild card and people shouldn't really generalise too much.

The Irish mother complex, I assume is related to how irish Males are losing their self-confience and almost masculinity? I've read a few studies by Speed Seducers as regards how males are losing their self-confidence in their interactions with other people especially towards women. In that as the child grows up, the child is taught to respect, and almost revere women, putting them on a pedestal, and limiting the males ability to stand for themselves in interactions with women, especially in a "walk-up" context. This is not exclusive to irish men, but rather the majority of western nations.

I've probably mis-understood your reference completely and gone off in the wrong direction completely.

Basically people want as easy a life as possible. The problem is, of course, if the prevailing mentality is that everyone wants an easy life then *nobody* will have it easy.

true enough, however its kinda worrying that even people who have chosen to create and run a business related to technology, seek to pass the buck to a support company. In the last year, I've seen more "consultant" type IT companies that provide IT support for companies. Unfortuently, the majority of these IT companies, fail to have the adequate knowledge, and also seek to pass the buck (which makes me wonder why they're there at all).

I don't want to go too deeply into my area of work, since I'd rather the company I work for wasn't associated with my Nick. (I've had alot of extreme opinions over the last 3-4 years )

The company I work for though, is focused around its customers. I was told the first time I errupted in rage after a crap support call, to "love our customers". While Support time is kept to a minimum, thats only became possible by becoming increasingly knowledgeable about the services we provide, and even services we don't provide. (I've had to provide support to customers, with their internet connections, simply because Eircom are too difficult to deal with).

however, It seems that customers expect all answers to be solved at the end of the phone, whether its related to the service provided or not. They don't seem to have the cop-on to know or even try to find out themselves. Or even once the issue is resolved, learn the solution (since its likely when it happens again, tehy're to the phone in a flash).

Looking back this post looks more and more like a rant. However, I do see this happening more and more. And especially with small to medium sized companies, rather than their larger counter-parts.

simu

Kell wrote:

If a person isnt interested in the subject to hand, they will generally display apathy and laziness, whereas if they are actually interested in what they are doing then they display at least a modicom of intelligence. Your average PAYE worker couldnt give a toss if they cant use their PC for half an hour. Its actually a benefit seein as they can doss for the half hour, and this is certainly true of Irish culture.

Well said. The inner workings of computers and phones are not of interest to most people - they just want them to work.

In cases where it is necessary for the individual to understand what's going on such as the introduction of the euro or of metric speed limits, people are much faster to learn.

liamo

I think MeatProduct was on the right track when he wrote about people trying to shift responsibility. "It's <someone else>'s fault" or "It's <someone else>'s responsibility" or "Why should I have to do it?".

This attitude is not just limited to work related problems. I've come across it so many times, particularly - but by no means exclusively - in younger people. They want the easy life, they expect a job, they expect to be housed, they complain when things don't go right and believe they have a right to the things that the rest of us have worked for.

If people would take responsibility for themselves I think they would have less to complain about and would find themselves more in control of their lives and their surroundings.

omnicorp

Agree, and thos ewho don't, get a bad rep. and it harms everyone.#
Then their attitude is this:
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/strife.php

pickarooney

In fairness, there just isn't time for everyone to learn everything these days. Not everyone has the time or inclination to learn the ins and outs of networking, video-editing, word-processing, gaming etc. or how to replace a fan-belt, rotate tyres, change oil. If they know there's somebody qualified (and paid) to do it for them by simply calling a number, it makes sense to trade a bit of their money for your time.
That said, many people take it to extremes, and totally abuse systems of support, which pisses off support techs who pass it on to other customers etc. etc.
Because everything to do with computers is so much in the public domain now, everyone feels as though he or she needs to be in there with the rest of them, knowing everything without learning, doing without thinking, running without learning to walk...

Who are the worst offenders?

1 - Old and lonley, may not even posess a PC. Wants someone to talk to
2 - Panicky, PC-hypochondriacs. Always have the worst viruses known to man, and many as yet undiscovered. Or at least that's what they'd have you believe. Problem is usually resolved by turning off caps-lock.
3 - Perfectionists. Know what they should be doing, but ring to double/triple-check with you anyway. Ostensibly because they trust you deeply, moreso to have someon to blame when their project cocks up.
4 - Weird problem people. Only ring once a year, and with only the most bizarre of issues. You'll never have heard the problem before, will offer some mad advice and for once will genuinely want the customer to ring back. Which he will, in 12 months, with a new PC and a completey new, completely unheard of problem. Customer usually sounds bored or nonchalant.
5 - Joe Normal. Has a common problem, you give a common answer. It partially solves the problem. Is grudginingly appreciative of help, but doesn't consider it worth his 50c a minute.
6 - Eager learner. He has a fairly basic problem, but wishes it was something more complex. When he hears your simple solution he probes and prods until he hears what he wants to, then formats his machine and buys some new hardware he's read about.
Will always learn the wrong things at the wrong time and in the wrong order.
7 - Imjustagirl. Explains problem, listens to solution, verbally nodding. Goes quiet when you ask her to read back/re-explain said solution. Admits to not listening to a word of what you said and just wants to sit and simper while you fix it transphonetically. Displays surprising depth of PC knowledge if you try and mess with them and get them to reformat or whatever. Caller may not be a girl.
8 - NeedToKnowers. Will repeatedly query everything you say, despite an up-front admission of complete ignorance of all things PC-related. From treble-checking your company's website address to asking for the checksum of every patch ever released to information on long-since-discontinued products.
9 - It's-broke-so-I'm-sulking. Rings repeatedly, has no idea what is wrong with computer. Has spoken to a different agent each time, and told each one a completely different story. It's broke, and damned if he's going to fix it, help it be fixed or contribute in any way to any process that may result in its fixage. Has no manuals, working e-mail address or patience, but possesses a cracking team of lawyers and the personal phone numbers of every TV and magazine "Watchdog".

omnicorp

what about normal people.

what about normal people.

The above is all "normal". Its just breaking them down a bit into categories.

I'd agree with all of his list. You do get these kinds of people on the end of the phone.

I'd add one more though.

10. Liars. They ring up with a problem. Usually its one of the easiest things to fix. But the nature of tech support is that you ask questions to narrow down the problem from what they said ( My email doesn't work ). Unfortuently at an early stage they lie about something easy, and the support goes on longer than need be.

I really hate the people that lie, for some unknown reason, just to make support more difficult. :mad:

def

Deleted User wrote: »

What I'm curious about, is whether ye guys (Gals) have noticed this trend aswell?

its taught to us in schools , you are not taught how to seek out your own solutions or the information needed to form your own opinions, what?how? why ? its just learn the formula , memorise the highlighted bits ,etc

when you think for yourself "miss i thought....." , you are told how you should not have thought , instead you should have followed orders ,done what you were told ,accepted standard and "official" answers

in schools obidience and an unquestioning attitude is disired , take what your given ,do what your told ,never challenge authority

as you can see this has backfired

this could have a massive effect on the subconscious thought processes , when tackling a problem later in life you automaticly raise your hand and ask for the answer ,just like in school or try to sneak a peak in the next lads copy.....

the "smartest" kids , best discribed as the most obidient ,tend to go the farthest while those who are "free thinkers" or question askers, the kids with abnormal thinking and learning patterns,are branded troublesome, and due to conflict in their early years can develop an authority rejection reflex (do the opposite of what their told) or they have no respect for any percieved authority figure ,be it the mot or the gardai , a terrible loss for society

most criminals seem to be petty and unlucky ,or highly intellegent and well orginised , either way they have minimum respect for or expectations of the system

this could be one reason why the governing class is so useless they dont have the capacity to think for themselves ,theres no one to ask, so they hire advisory boards and make poor decisions when left to their own devices ,

and since the more capable are probably criminals......its a production line designed for failure and annoying IT workers at help desks

but hey ,,this is only my opinion ,,it not right ,its not wrong ,,just somthin i dreamed up ,,because there was no explaination to hand

Permabear

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