Midnighter and Apollo, de-wussing homosexuality

AngryBadger

Straight off, it's important to point out that I\'m not a homop[hobe on any level. But I have always wondered why homosexuals, (who in fairness are numbered among some of the greatest minds of our time), have never really featured as icons for me. Then i read the first "The Authority" collection, and i realised why.

We've been bred to associate feminine traits with homosexuality, so we tend to subconsciously feel there's a barrier between heterosexuals, and homosexuals, largely manifested in the idea that a homosexual male is not really a man at all.

I've just found two homosexuals, who completely trash this subliminal notion, Midnighter, and Apollo kick total *@&^ing ass, anyone else got any thoughts on this?

goodcarver

[FONT=VerdaHomosexuality is nothing more than a sexual preference. It does not give the individual affected any kind of special ability or talent. The fact that people like Michaelangelo, a great artist, also are lovers of men is nothing more than coincidence. I have met men who were homosexual who had no talent in anything and were in fact, overwhelmingly unimaginative and a little bit stupid. na]Keep the faith:[/FONT]

OFDM

simu

AngryBadger wrote:

Straight off, it's important to point out that I\'m not a homop[hobe on any level. But I have always wondered why homosexuals, (who in fairness are numbered among some of the greatest minds of our time), have never really featured as icons for me. Then i read the first "The Authority" collection, and i realised why.

We've been bred to associate feminine traits with homosexuality, so we tend to subconsciously feel there's a barrier between heterosexuals, and homosexuals, largely manifested in the idea that a homosexual male is not really a man at all.

I've just found two homosexuals, who completely trash this subliminal notion, Midnighter, and Apollo kick total *@&^ing ass, anyone else got any thoughts on this?

Would you not have women as "icons" at all?

hailtothechimp

Hmmm...not sure how to interpret your post.

First off, it's nice to see homosexual characters who are not flamboyantly camp or "effeminate". Not that there's anything at all wrong with being either of those things of course, just that certain portrayals merely feed and reassert existing stereotypes. The couple in question are (of course) obviously supposed to represent a nod to Batman & Superman; the twin pillars of the DC universe. Nice to see that particular relationship given a subversive twist, albeit by proxy.

So, basically, I'm with you in applauding the representation of the Apollo/Midnighter love affair.

However, by praising the "de-wussing" of homosexual realtionships you seem to be implying that men who exhibit "feminine traits" have no real place in comics. So is it simply a case of "butch gays" - yay, "camp gays" - no, as far as comics are concerned? Surely with a bit of inventive and creative writing you can fit any kind of character into a superhero situation: gay, straight, or otherwise!

P.S: Not trying to suggest you're a homophobe by the way, in case it comes across like that! It's quite clear from your original post that you're open-minded about this kind of thing.

solo1

Gay this, gay that. Whatever. The Authority kicks ass.

Fysh

Not that I can really comment, but it strikes me as maybe indicative of the state of hero books that the existence of non-stereotyped gay characters is still comment worthy (although this could be just me and my enduring cynicism about perv-suit books). If we still can't move away from the generic appearance of the hero archetypes, I suppose it's to be expected that overall we haven't moved away from the personality archetypes either.

Although I have to say - if you want to read something that'll really confuse any existing preconceptions you have about gender and sexuality, check out How Loathsome. Nice artwork, interesting storylines, and intriguing characters with a variety of sexual deviances. (Note : it's very much an indie comic and has no superheroes anywhere. If this would put you off, ignore the suggestion).

solo1

I've read Peter Milligan's "Enigma" and another comic called "Seven Miles a Second" which are crazy gay comics. But good fun. Except for "Seven Miles a Second". That's not fun. It's good, but depressing.

AngryBadger

Wow i posted that something like two months ago....anyways

hailtothechimp wrote:

However, by praising the "de-wussing" of homosexual realtionships you seem to be implying that men who exhibit "feminine traits" have no real place in comics. So is it simply a case of "butch gays" - yay, "camp gays" - no, as far as comics are concerned? Surely with a bit of inventive and creative writing you can fit any kind of character into a superhero situation: gay, straight, or otherwise!

I'm not implying that at all. When I originally posted I'd just read the first "Authority" graphic novel, and prior to this I don't remember reading about characters that weren't female who were openly homosexual. Given how reticent comics in general are toward any kind of creative change, I just found the Apollo/Midnighter relationship instantly intriging, then I began to wonder why it was that something that is, arguably, unimportant,struck such a chord. After a while i realised it was because in most settings homosexuals are never represented as spearhead characters, they're always the token sexual liberal, or the character excuse for dick jokes. So,for me, to read about two characters, who are as you say nods to the two pillars od superhero-dom in general, and also homsexual was cool. And it was made even cooler by the fact that Elis, and Millar's treatment of the characters didn't demean them in any way. If that seems narrow of me, of homophobic, well it's not, i just found it to be an interesting shift in apradigm.

Fysh wrote:

it strikes me as maybe indicative of the state of hero books that the existence of non-stereotyped gay characters is still comment worthy

I absolutely agree with Fysh on this one. Thankfully tho, it seems to me there're more and more title coming out which do challenge the establoshed status quo of comics.

solo1 wrote:

Gay this, gay that. Whatever. The Authority kicks ass.

It really does

simu wrote:

Would you not have women as "icons" at all?

While i don't think that's really what i'm talking about, since you ask. Yes I would, but as a guy, I'm obviously looking for male icons. It's not a sexism thing, but we all look for people or characters we feel we can identify with, so obviously as a guy,the characters I feel I most identify with are in the vast majority going to be male.