Architect

jack24

Hi,

I am planning an extension to my house in Dublin (dont need planning permission as it's to the rear/small enought to be covered by the planning exemptions). As it's north facing I need to get as much light in as possible and to do this properly I was thinking of engaging an architect to draw up plans (the extension would be approx 23sqm and involves a new kitchen/splitting up a living/dining room) but didnt know how to find a decent reasonably priced one and also am unsure as to how much they will charge. According to the RIAI the usual fees are approx 10% of the build cost, but I am wondering if this is the same flat fee as the 1% of property value that used to be commonplace for solicitors in house purchases (ie they charge 10% if they can get away with it). Has anyone had any experience with architects for domestic extensions?

thanks

Jack

gimpotronitus

Hi Jack,

As with everything, it who you know. I am getting a similiar thing done to my house. Got quotes from 3,000 to 4,000 JUST for the planning stage. Actually supervising the project would cost a lot more. Absolute and complete rip-off.

I asked my builder did he know any architect and he did, so now it is costing me 600 euro instead of 3,000. There are lots of architects/architect technicians who can do the job for a fraction of the price.

Steer clear of "Yellow Pages" architects is my advice.

best of luck.

jack shictt

Jack im a cad techanicn here and i wish i could give you more infomation but sorry i cant. Is ita two storey one storey, architects usally charge a percentage fee because they often have to pay otther ie. that 10% might included all site visits from structural engineers, the sturctural report, planning etc. shop round is your best bet also try small firms not big ones like arups, or van dijk etc. If you have a head on you the planning stage can usullay be done urself and it shouldn't cost near 3000 euro,unless its an awfull big building etc, if you want an idea on planning fees it works persq meter( retention outline permission costs more. phone your local council office and ask to talk to an engineer.

lomb

the riaa fees are basically a cod. the opening offer is a high one so allows them to say yeah il do it for 5% and then they send u the fee sheet saying they are doing u a favour. stear clear of architects and cut to the chase. hire a draughtsman and an engineer. the engineer wil charge no more then 150 per site visit if u need one. so 3/4 site visits max. a draughtsman will charge according to time.

in anycase the average building cost around dublin is around say 150euro/sq ft so a 2000 sq ft house would be 300000euro (yes i know it can be had for less but anyway) so can you honestly say for an architect to design said house and for 5 engineer visits on site using a computer to draught plans it costs 30 grand. there is no way in hell the economic cost of an architect with resonable overheads is any more than 5000euro. also dont forget the vat trick. all architects fees are +vat and always get a written estimate, always.

lomb

gimpotronitus wrote:

Hi Jack,

As with everything, it who you know. I am getting a similiar thing done to my house. Got quotes from 3,000 to 4,000 JUST for the planning stage. Actually supervising the project would cost a lot more. Absolute and complete rip-off.

I asked my builder did he know any architect and he did, so now it is costing me 600 euro instead of 3,000. There are lots of architects/architect technicians who can do the job for a fraction of the price.

Steer clear of "Yellow Pages" architects is my advice.

best of luck.

good advie but i would never hire a builder recommended architect more a architect technician and an engineer seperately.

pollyantic

I need an architect to look at my sisters house just to see if the roof support is ok. She got a builder out to look at a wall removal and plastering job and he freaked her out about the state of the support of the roof.
Seems to me he would have had to make a point of going to the attic so intentionally did this so he could pretend there was other work to be done and rip her off.
Anyway shes freaked and needs a pro to look at it.
Any advice on an architect would be great.
Even better if anyone has the name and number of one in the Dublin area and a rough idea of the cost of getting him to look at it.
All i want is for him to say yes it needs work or no it doesn't.

lomb

pollyantic wrote:

I need an architect to look at my sisters house just to see if the roof support is ok. She got a builder out to look at a wall removal and plastering job and he freaked her out about the state of the support of the roof.
Seems to me he would have had to make a point of going to the attic so intentionally did this so he could pretend there was other work to be done and rip her off.
Anyway shes freaked and needs a pro to look at it.
Any advice on an architect would be great.
Even better if anyone has the name and number of one in the Dublin area and a rough idea of the cost of getting him to look at it.
All i want is for him to say yes it needs work or no it doesn't.

best find a civil and structurel engineer, shouldnt cost more than 400euro.

Lex Luthor

I used my brother in law a few years back when he was studying architecture...him and a few of his mates do nixers for a fraction of the cost. If you are interested I could ask him does he know anybody who would be interested in quoting you for your work. Send me a PM.

lomb

my opinion of arcitects is not a good one in general. what they do is have a blanket 10% charge for everything on the fee sheet. as everyone well knows it should be billed on time spent as one client may need only 8 hours of work whereas another 100. it should then be billed at a professional rate of 130-150 per hour. with this i have no problem. the 10% standard charge is insane for 60-70% of all clients. as ive said on a 300000 house the fees would be 30000euro. this equates to 200hours work or a months work which of course is crazy. a pc can draft plans up in a few hours and be able to give the client several rough possibilities. then after this the next phases are all computerised up to the tender phase (addition of specs etc)
finally as regards site supervision this is actually only a few critical visits, ie when foundation layed yada yada yada.

gimpotronitus

I agree 100% with lomb. If you pay what some architects are asking for these days then you only have yourself to blame and you are making it worse for the rest of us. Get a nixer or as lomb says an engineer instead and save yourself a wad of cash to spend on the actual job!

antoinolachtnai

I'm not an architect, and I don't play one on the 'net. However, I sometimes do design and concept work that is a lot like what an architect would do.

First, the job begins with the plan. The plan is just as important as the blocks and cement and plastering and so on. It's integral.

The ten percent figure (I would have thought) is to cover the fact that the architect may have to do a complicated competitive pitch, often only gets paid quite late in the proceedings, carries a degree of liability if things go wrong and is expected to be on-site extensively during the building.

This obviously isn't going to be the case on a smaller building, where they're just coming up with the concept and making two or three visits during building.

I'd be surprised if there weren't architects who wouldn't prefer to quote this type of work on a EUR 130/hour, paid monthly. It's all a matter of making a deal, I guess. Even on a big project, I would be inclined to set some sort of fixed price to give the architect an incentive to get things done pretty fast and keep costs down.

It's easy to see how an hourly rate can run to 5 or 6 grand, even on a small project. It's really only 5 days' solid work.

Bigger architects who are set up for large-ish projects are going to have some minimum project size that it's worth their while engaging for. This is understandable too.

The other thing to remember is that a really good architect who can bring clever ideas to your situation could really be worth 5 times what a mediocre architect is worth, and might even save you the money. Of course you could get a draughtsman on a nixer who has a really good flair for design and who can do the same. It's hard to judge though.

gamer

I know friend got plans all maps paperwork elevations handled application to council fingal and put ad in paper sign in garden for 400sqft garage redesign to kitchen ,bedroom. +attic conversion extension dublin 15, bout 5drawings elevations total charge tom client was 1300 euro , 2 years ago,
that 5percent fee is for project managing the job visiting site checking builders work setting out detailed list of materials required for job.just pay for plans yourself ,pay 1000e and do project management yourself.

gamer

u can borrow construction homebond book from your local library get 2004 or 2005 edition if possible ,i got it from coolock branch ,but u can put in request 4 it.it gives details of modern building methods and building regs in ireland.make sure try to figure out where u want water pipes to go be4 u see architect if possible.where do u want doors windows etc ,rads, be4 u see him, have rough plans drawn out ready front sideview,top elevation.u can go to planninng office council call in and get advice ,basic advice on an informal basis.

antoinolachtnai

If you are looking for help with building regulations and planning, get a draughtsman and a technician or engineer, the architect is probably the wrong person. If on the other hand, you actually need something designed, then you need a different approach. (That isn't to say that there aren't draughtsmen and engineers who are good at designing, some of them are.)

Enii

I've dealt with this crowd for a domestic extension, extremely reasonable price for designing the place and then when it went to tender they negotiated with builders on the price of getting it built and they saved me a bundle. Then when it was being built I employed them to oversee the job, everything ran really smoothly. Liffey Architects 01 - 8089154