Recording the Demo

Kelter

We are finally ready to record the Demo.

I'm looking for a place(cheap would be nice) to record it, but am also looking for other opinion on "the demo"

Do people think that it is worth spending much money on the demo? or should it just be representative of your sound and therefore quality is not that important.

Also all demos are 3 songs...... Why? Where is that written?

bassey

i was thinking about this the other day and although i'm young, i think it'd be smart to save up for you own gear and be able to demo yourselvs

Phil_321

I'd say get a (second-hand?) 8 track recorder and do it yourself. You can do as many takes/songs as you want without the pressure and constraints of studio time. You'll also be in a more relaxed atmosphere. Then get cubase for your pc, import the tracks, adjust the volumes, and burn your demo cd.
There's also the added advantage that as you listen back to it over the next few weeks you can hear what needs to fixed/turned up and redo it without having to go back to the studio.

I was in a band a few years ago and we spent about £400 twice, for two demoes and the results weren't a patch on what I'm getting now with my own very simple setup.
Don't know why more people don't go this route.

A demo doesn't have to be 3 songs. And from demoes I've heard after the 2nd track things tend to go downhill very fast. That said the demo I'm doing at the moment is going to have 3 songs....I suppose with 3 tunes you can cover enough ground, and give a good representation of what you could do on an entire album.

Doctor J

You don't need to spend a lot of money, you just need it to be recorded and mixed by an engineer who is good and knows the style of music you play and how to put it together. Home demos generally sound **** because most people don't have a clue about mics, mic placement, EQ, comperssion, limiting, reverb, ambience and all the other great things a good recording has. Poorly recorded drums will destroy even the greatest songs. Get it right, your cd may be someones introduction to your band and first impressions do last.

As for the three track thing, demo means demonstration and if a band can't demonstrate they're a good band in three tracks then I'll wager they're not a good band.

Brother A

Quality is important.
If you send your demo to a dj or producer, chances are they'll have lots of demo CD's to listen to.
They will listen for a few seconds and then if it seems awful, they'll throw it in the bin.
Also, for this reason the first song should not have an overly-long intro.

You could have 4 songs on the CD, or even more, in which case you might call it an E.P.(maybe????) or a mini-album if you were feeling pretentious. But a demo is a 'demonstration', so demonstrate your abilities quickly before the scumsucking A&R men get bored. Te he

tibilt

if you have a powerful computer you can buy pretty cheap pro-tools software that can do anything a generic studio can. and if you're not sure about how to mic drums just use a drum machine for the demo. that way you don't have to worry about equalization and you can get the perfect drum sound for you.

D!ve^Bomb!

DO NOT use a drum machine for your demo!

This is going to be what people listen if they are to go onto your website etc.. Good first impressions n all...

if you're going to do it then do it properly, don't be half assed cos it'll turn into a habit, an important thing about being in a band is don't settle for second best.. save up your money and get the best quality recording possible.. when people hear it they will be impressed and hopefully like the song a lot better..

Phil_321

Doctor J wrote:

You don't need to spend a lot of money, you just need it to be recorded and mixed by an engineer who is good and knows the style of music you play and how to put it together. Home demos generally sound **** because most people don't have a clue about mics, mic placement, EQ, comperssion, limiting, reverb, ambience and all the other great things a good recording has.

It's alright if you're U2 and you can afford to spend months in a top class studio.
From my experiences, when an unsigned/inexperienced band goes into record they're on a very limited budget and everything is done as quickly as possible to minimize cost, particurlarly when it gets to the mixing stage. Then they're left with a relatively expensive demo that they're unhappy with.
For a basic demo, I don't think an engineer/producer is required. If you're any good as a musician, and have a pair of ears you should be able to get a good home recording/mix through experimentation. For what you're lacking in recording knowledge you'll more than make up for with no pressure, the unlimited time to set up/record/mix, and the ability upon further listens, to correct mistakes easily.

Poorly recorded drums will destroy even the greatest songs. Get it right, your cd may be someones introduction to your band and first impressions do last.

That's the only place where the home recording setup come unstuck. What I'm doing is getting a guy with V-Drums to record directly to the 8 track so there's no micing/mixing to worry about drum-wise.

tibilt

theres nothing half assed about a drum machine. it just requires a learned skill to mic drums properly. programming drums is easier, and you can be creative. if anything it would sound better

D!ve^Bomb!

no amount of programmed drums will sound better than a good, well mic'd kit

Doctor J

Phil_321 wrote:

It's alright if you're U2 and you can afford to spend months in a top class studio.
From my experiences, when an unsigned/inexperienced band goes into record they're on a very limited budget and everything is done as quickly as possible to minimize cost, particurlarly when it gets to the mixing stage. Then they're left with a relatively expensive demo that they're unhappy with.
For a basic demo, I don't think an engineer/producer is required. If you're any good as a musician, and have a pair of ears you should be able to get a good home recording/mix through experimentation. For what you're lacking in recording knowledge you'll more than make up for with no pressure, the unlimited time to set up/record/mix, and the ability upon further listens, to correct mistakes easily.

That's the only place where the home recording setup come unstuck. What I'm doing is getting a guy with V-Drums to record directly to the 8 track so there's no micing/mixing to worry about drum-wise.

That's a very depressing way of looking at it, very defeatist indeed, what the blue blazes has recording a decent demo got to do with U2? Where, please show me, did I indicate that you're paying any money out? Use some initiative FFS. Call sound engineering schools such as Pulse and STC where you will find literally hundereds of sound engineers waiting to try out their skills for free and work with bands to improve their own skills, I mean really work with bands. Ask the college who their better students are, easy peasy. Striking up a good relationship with a good engineer would be one of the smartest things any band could wish for. If you can find an engineer who knows your style of music and is good at what he/she does, you will be in a very, very good position indeed. There is also no harm in making contact with people in other areas of the business. A band should know everything they're going to do when they do go into a studio, they should have a plan, they should have everything mapped out before the session. If they don't, that's the band's fault, it really is, and they've no-one to blame for their lame demo but themselves. The work should begin long before the first track is recorded. Know your engineer, know your instruments, know your songs, have a plan and everything will fall into place. You'd be astounded at how many bands breeze blissfully into a studio not knowing anything about the studio, how they want to sound, whether the engineer who came with the session has ever heard a band like them, yet still are surprised when it doesn't work out the way they thought it ought to. Your engineer should have attended a few rehearsals, should know the songs, all before the recording takes place.

"For what you're lacking in recording knowledge you'll more than make up for with no pressure, the unlimited time to set up/record/mix, and the ability upon further listens, to correct mistakes easily."

No offense, but that is just bad advice. Unless you know how to do things properly you're going to spend years sounding like **** until you either see or are shown how to do it properly and understand exactly what it is you are doing. So if you fix bad mic'ing with EQ, it still sounds like ****. A little fumbling in the dark can return the odd reasonable result, but you're wasting your own time not turning to someone who knows what they're doing. Also, studio experience is a major asset for any musician, as are professional quality mics and pre amps and someone who knows how to utilise them effectively.

A demo is very important, it is you saying "this is my band, this is what we can do". If it sounds crap you immediately negate any hard work you've put in working on your songs, playing skills, etc. No demo at all is better than one that makes you band sound ****, that's the bottom line. Once people think your band is **** it can be very hard to reverse that impression. Your demo should sound as good as you can realistically make it. You should call on whoever you can to help you. You really ought to aim to sound better than anyone else, otherwise what is the point? You only demonstrate there are better bands than yours.

Time to end the rant All I'm saying is, get out there and talk to people who can help your band make their demo. Talk to other bands, find out who engineered the good sounding demos out there. Find out where the good, but reasonably priced studios are. Put a bit of effort into the preparation of your demo and you will be rewarded and it may not cost you a cent

tibilt

i was just giving him a cheaper alternative. and most people can't tell the difference between programmed drums and real mic'd drums. the idea of properly miking drums is to get them sounding robotically perfect.

Doctor J

The idea of micing drums is so that you have a less robotic but equally clear and well defined drum sound. If drum machines had groove and swing, no-one would ever use a drummer again. A good drummer is worth hearing, worth the pain of micing and recording live drums.

tibilt

ok

Phil_321

Doctor J wrote:

Call sound engineering schools such as Pulse and STC where you will find literally hundereds of sound engineers waiting to try out their skills for free and work with bands to improve their own skills, I mean really work with bands. Ask the college who their better students are, easy peasy. Striking up a good relationship with a good engineer would be one of the smartest things any band could wish for. If you can find an engineer who knows your style of music and is good at what he/she does, you will be in a very, very good position indeed.

The problem here is you're relying on a relatively inexperienced student, who may be great but chances are they will be ****, after all they're only learning. I agree if you find an engineer who's good and knows your style you're better off, but when you're on the first rung of the ladder you're going to have limited options.

A band should know everything they're going to do when they do go into a studio, they should have a plan, they should have everything mapped out before the session. If they don't, that's the band's fault, it really is, and they've no-one to blame for their lame demo but themselves. The work should begin long before the first track is recorded. Know your engineer, know your instruments, know your songs, have a plan and everything will fall into place.

Yes, but when bands go into the studio the first few times, no matter how well prepared they are there will be alot of nerves when the recording starts. leading to unforced errors. Another point is, with the home setup, you can try out as many different ways of doing the songs vocal/instrument wise as you like and pick what turned out best.

Your engineer should have attended a few rehearsals, should know the songs, all before the recording takes place.

At this level, I don't see engineers attending bands' rehearsals before recording. Turn up at every band's practise sessions (and they'd have to go to a fair few to know the songs thoroughly) for no pay....don't think so. Not to mind if the band was utter crap, why would you want to spend hours listening to sh*t for nothing.

"For what you're lacking in recording knowledge you'll more than make up for with no pressure, the unlimited time to set up/record/mix, and the ability upon further listens, to correct mistakes easily."

No offense, but that is just bad advice. Unless you know how to do things properly you're going to spend years sounding like **** until you either see or are shown how to do it properly and understand exactly what it is you are doing. So if you fix bad mic'ing with EQ, it still sounds like ****.

I do think the pros outweight the cons here. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

A demo is very important, it is you saying "this is my band, this is what we can do". If it sounds crap you immediately negate any hard work you've put in working on your songs, playing skills, etc. No demo at all is better than one that makes you band sound ****, that's the bottom line. Once people think your band is **** it can be very hard to reverse that impression. Your demo should sound as good as you can realistically make it.

I agree 100%

D!ve^Bomb!

definitely get in touch with some students,, they will definitely be eager to get some experience under their belt and most likely for free.. sure the only reason i haven't offered my services(for free) is because i don't have the right gear to record drums..... yet

Doctor J

Phil_321 wrote:

The problem here is you're relying on a relatively inexperienced student, who may be great but chances are they will be ****, after all they're only learning.

They're learning how to record instruments properly and therefore will have a better idea of how to go about it than a regular musician. Also, the musician can learn by watching and listening to the engineer. A good musician does not equal a good engineer most of the time, they are very different disciplines. I agree 100% that every musician should have basic sound engineering knowledge and some for of recording apparatus at home but most home recordings I've heard should have stayed at home. There are so many engineers, albeit trainees, who would be very keen to work with bands for nothing but the experience and many are also musicians, so in my mind it's not that much of a gamble. As I said, talk to the colleges, ask who the good ones are. The potential pros vastly outweigh the cons.

Dr. Loon

tibilt wrote:

the idea of properly miking drums is to get them sounding robotically perfect.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

Kelter

And a cheap place to do it?

I don't have the micing equipment etc

Doctor J

Phone the colleges, talk to engineers, many of whom will have the equipment.