Big Problem - advice badly needed

AB03

Ok, heres the story.
Bought a 94 Civic 1.5 LSi saloon last week and it was sitting out side my house (with a handbrake - gearstick lock btw) til wednesday, and it got nicked. Be aware people, these civics are a piece of piss to rob, so be careful if you are thinking of buying one.
Anyway, the ****ers managaed to get in without breakin any windows and managed to slip the handbrake lock off with ease, in less than 5 mins (I checked on it 5 mins before it was nicked). It was found after about 20 mins and was towed to the garda station. Just went down earlier and tried to start it by turning the ignition cap with a key (the cap behind the steering cowl, so basically hotwiring it) and it wont start, it wont crank, tick over, nothing.
The guard thought it might have been a dead bat, so I tried jumping it, no joy tho. My thoughts are that its a problem with the ignition if its not even cranking or trying to spark. No elecs are turning on and as it is at the moment, the fckin thing is sitting there with both electric windows down and unable to close em, so the interior has gotten absolutely soaked already.
Basically I have 2 questions:

1: Does anyone have any ideas as to what could be wrong? Any ideas at all would be helpful, as I need as much info as to what could be wrong for when I get a chance to have a proper look at it.

2: Does anyone fancy letting me use a lockup or side garage to store this thing in for a day or two as I have literally nowhere to store it for the next day or two and its a target sitting as it is (both windows open + ignition ripped out). Just til I can get a mechanic in work to diagnose the problem and move it for me. Obviously a financial donation would be supplied.

Cheers for any help....

lomb

chances are the fuse blew during the period they had it check them all especially the large ones (20 and 25 amp) under the bonnet.

ondafly

are any lights coming on , on the dash ? if so your starter motor maybe fecked, put the car into 2nd or 3rd gear, give it a push, while its being pushed, try and start it. Otherwise, if the car had an alarm, or the scum thought it had, they problably did one of their "short circuit" tricks and blew a fuse, check both fuse boxes, other dash, and in the engine bay. See if you can get another battery to test also. An obvious sign of a dodge battery in a honda, will be the time on the clock being wrong.

Sorry I can't help with a lockout, but presume you have the car insured, the glass replacement company will store your car for you.

Hondas are easy to break into, but thats well known, and theres plenty you can do , to stop them taking the car. The handbrake -> gear knob lock ain't one of them. ask on jspeed.net for advice re: securing, and possibly getting it to start.

AB03

Cool, how do I recognise blown fuses?
I can ask a mechanic in work on monday, but again, I want to drive this feckin thing tomorrow if at all possible, rather than a tow which'll cost money.

ondafly

a blown fuse, for the small plug in types, have a wire you can clearly see inside them, that wire will be broke in half, if the fuse is blown. Also sometimes one of the connectors on the fuse will have burns on it, better to change them too.

for the bigger amp ones, there is a wire on them that snaps too, should be fairly obvious.

AB03

Sorry onda, just read your other reply above there now. The car aint insured and no glass was broken. I literally had the car sittin out side 4 days, I dont do my theory test for another week and it wouldnt have been moved til then had it not gotten nicked. Theres no dash lights comin on at all.When I move the igniton to the start position, I get nada, zip, nothing. Im not talkin about moving the key in the barrell btw, cos that obviously does nothing seeing as the ignition is ripped out, but Im turning the ignition cap itself with a key stuck into it (althought you could use a screwdriver or somthing similar, as they prolly did).
Just re-reading the handbook there, it specifically says that if it aint doin nothing when u turn the key,then the most likely problem is the battery, if not, a blown fuse (which is sounding fairly likely also) and if neither of those is the problem then your most likely answer is a problem at the ignition switch. So I reckon that could well be my man. Have a printout of a breakdown of a honda ignition + their prices that I got from a mate in rathdown motors, only works out at 145 all in for a full lock set + iginition + main barrell and 2 cut keys.Might not be the end of the world after all. If it is the fuses then Im laughing (please god, be the fuses!!).
Still tho, if it aint either, Im fooked.

AMurphy

I have found it possilbe to unscrew the gearstick knob and thus remove those Gear/brake anti theft devices.
And similarly you can cut the wheel and remove anything locket into the ring of the steering wheel.

As for what is now wrong with it. How did your friends start it. Key or hotwire.
If hotwired it. thorough fuse and burnt wire check as suggested.
Meanwhile, get a tarp. or if you can find the window relays, just short them out.

AB03

tarp?
And do you mean short the window relay and then pull the window up by hand?
Cheers for the replies so quickly lads, Im in a serious situation at the moment.
Dunno if I forgot to mention that the garda need me to move it tomorrow at the latest.

AB03

If I do keep this car once everything is sorted btw, dont worry, an alarm and immob. will be fitted + a visible steering lock, I dont care if they can be taken off easy, they wont with an alarm goin off and even if it does come off, it'll be immobilised. ****in little knacker bastards, Im freaked over all this ****. My first car (and Ive been trying since I was 17, 3 years ago for this I tells ya) and it gets rallied by some little ****er before I even get to drive the thing. Thank god the exterior and the rest of the thing seem to be fine.

lomb

short the relay as in apply 12volts from battery to it. not recommended unless u know what ur doing u could blow everything. its def a fuse or several of them although they could have damaged the ecu if its injected possibly

AB03

Jaysis, if its the ecu Im really knackered. This feckin thing is costin me money thru the ass already. I just bought a full service kit including timing belt and water pump and havent even fitted that yet. Feckin nightmare. Relief to hear it might well be the fuse/s tho, nice one. Any more info appreciated too, cheers lads...

AMurphy

AB03 wrote:

tarp?
And do you mean short the window relay and then pull the window up by hand?
Cheers for the replies so quickly lads, Im in a serious situation at the moment.
Dunno if I forgot to mention that the garda need me to move it tomorrow at the latest.

You can have it towed, I'll assume.

"Tarp" as in "tarpaulin", large sheet of canvas over it till you get it sorted out.

No I mean short the relays as in pull then out and connect the N/O contacts together with a shorting wire. assuming these are std Bosch footprint relays, that connect terminal 30 to 87, or simply take the lid off the thing and push the relay closed with a toothpick.

Otherwise, where I have been able to remove the door panel easily, connect a 12~18Vdc drill battery directly to the window motor with a few temporary leads... and keep your fingers out of the way.

Interceptor

My sympathies for the position these w4nkers have put you in.

1. Have you any way to tow it back to your house - behind a mates car?
2. Protect the inside of the car by taping bin-liners over the open windows.
3. If the ignition barrel is out, the wiring is most likely cut in order to allow hotwiring and this means the ignition switch won't work - you need to see if you can find the cut wires and repair the damage.
4. If you find the wires are cut and you can rejoin them, the windows will close and the car might start - if you aren't getting power on the dash, you won't be able to short anything to get the windows up. Do not attempt to connect a separate battery to any circuit unless you know what you are at -a short circuit on an unfused circuit could cause serious injury.
5. If the morons who took the car shorted the main supply to the ignition and blew a main fuse, it wouldn't have driven away. If you tried jumping it from another battery with no joy, then your battery is probably ok.
6. Don't buy a new barrel from a main dealer - get one from a breaker for €35.
7. When you get your car back outside your house, take the HT lead the runs between the ignition coil and the distributor away - the car cannot be driven away and it won't cost you anything while you are waiting for your test. Scumbags rarely travel with spare HT leads...

'c

AMurphy

7 good points.

Tarp or trash bag over window, same effect, just much cheaper.

On cut wires; if you have cut wires. Don't use crimp connectors (UNLESS you have access to professional tools) or 3M insulation displacement splices under any circumstance.
Reason, with vibration and time they become unreliable joints and let you down on occasion.

Solder the wires together and use twinwall/melt heatshrink tubing to seal & hold the joint, and remember to remove the usually corrosive flux residue, before heatshrinking.

Ratchet

I am Honda mad and will give you a hand if you are in Dublin.

RicardoSmith

I have a full cover steering wheel lock that I used to have for my Honda CRX that you can have for free. Car was never touched while it was fitted. Unfortunately forgot to put it one one night and they broke the steering column and ignition casing trying to steal it. I could never source replacements. Eventually had to get rid of it. So sad. Anyway the lock is stuck in the shed. Might be a little be grubby, but if you clean it up they are an excellent lock. PM me if you are interested and can collect it in Dublin. Most hondas of that era from the cheapest to the NSX had rubbish security.

kleefarr

I'm sure there will be some guys on here HONDA REVOLUTIONS that would be able to add some good suggestions/solutions.

AB03

Cheers for all this lads, ye are quite useful when you put your minds to it!
Ricardo - that sounds brilliant, I was gonna buy one of those anyway once I get the immob fitted, so thats gonna save me more money, youre a gent and I WILL have to give you something for it, cheers mate. PMed.
It looks like I can park the thing in an safe apartment complex behind gates etc, for the next day or two, so at least I have somewhere I can take an hour or so looking at it now and might get those windows closed. Ive had black sacks on the windows since yesterday morning, but at that stage the damage was done, at least its been givin a bit of a chance to dry at the moment tho.
Im going to have it moved fairly soon and Im not really too on for the towing behind another car idea, its not the best way to move it. Obviously at the same time, the tow truck driver gettin bout 60-80 euro off me doesnt sound too great either, so I dunno.
Ive tried goin down the breaker yard route aswell, nobody has a lock set + ignition for these, any that are there, that'll be the first thing taken off em apparently. Id well believe it aswell. Its grand tho, I work in a garage and know someone in a honda dealer parts dept., so Im gettin 25% discount as it is, it only comes to 87.56 all in for an ignition, housing, barrell, 2 keys, clamp to steering wheel, all brand new and key cut to chassis number (no messin around with diff. keys for doors and ignition) and whatever screws nescessary. So that sounds grand.

RicardoSmith

I spent 6 months trying sort the right parts for my CRX, I should have just bought them from Honda but at the time they wanted something like £400 for all the locks and ignition parts etc. The steering colum would have been more, and then there was body damage that Honday wanted about 1500 to fix. I could find noone one else willing to take on the work. At the end of tha day it would have cost me 3000 to put it back on the road and then I got a renewal quote that increased from 1200 to 3000 for no reason. 6K was just too much to spend on it.

If I was you I'd go that route, sounds ok price wise and you'll get it done quickly and properly.

Ratchet

RicardoSmith wrote:

......a renewal quote that increased from 1200 to 3000 for no reason.......

off the point but this is exactly what happened to me insurance went up from 1280 to 3450 punts, had to sell the car.

CRX was great car, got my one crashed and did the work myself as car was mad expansive at the time. It was hard to find the parts at that time.


Now I have full garage of Honda parts

commited

Ricardo - did you sell that to a fairly large fella who owned a garage?

if so - I may just have worked on that car - jap import that revved to blue murder?

Sorry to hear about yer troubles AB03 - if someone nicked my car I think they'd be doing me a favour though :rolleyes:

RicardoSmith

No it was an Irish 16-16i

AB03

For those interested, towed the car to relative saftety today (better not mention where, ya never know who could be reading this stuff!) and checked the main fuse board, the fuse labelled as IG on the panel housing it is blown. Anyone any idea what IG is? Im thinking and hoping its ignition which means that I can drive this thing after I change that fuse presumably?

AMurphy

as suspected< it probbly means Ignition and everything that goes with the ignition.

Ratchet

get the fuse and you will be sorted. Seen good few cars with this fuse blown as the result of joyriding

AB03

****in great, left the cars manual in the other halfs car last night and now I dont know what wattage of fuse to use on the main board. Anyone know? Gonna head down there in an hour or two and check it out.

Ratchet

power distribution fuse which is in left top corner of the box is rated 80A which should be the right one as you have no power at all.


Ignition switch has fuse rated 50A

AB03

Ballax. Just went down and changed the blown IG fuse. No joy, still nothing. Think the battery might actually be dead now at that stage tho cos its been sitting there for nearly a week without being started. Gonna try jumping it again and it that dont work I dunno what Im gonna do.

AMurphy

Well, first check it ain't blown again. thus signifying a short somewhere.

After that, I'd start with a good manual/wiring diagram, DVM/testlamp and inspection of the wiring loom, look for hanging/loose wires and ground connections.
It's not rocket science.... though it can be time consuming & frustrating.

btw, while you have described what it does not do, ie does not start, you have failed to indicate what it DOES do, if anything?.
So it's pretty difficult even get close to the problem

So next time you are with the vehicle, check and test everything electrical, incl the battery. Dead in wone week.. possibly, but no be expected from a reasonably good battery, unless there is a high Ignition-OFF current drain.

AB03

I havent told ya about what its doing, cos it aint doing anything!!
Literally, not a thing. No p/s, elecs at all, dash lights, no engine firing, no starter motor trying to start etc.. Not one part of the car is responding at all.
I did check and make sure the same fuse didnt blow again, which it didnt.
Cant ****in figure out what the little bastards could have done to make it not respond to anything in that space of time. ****.
Ill do a voltage test on the bat. next time Im near the car, but I reckon Id have easier access to another car with jump leads than I would a voltimeter, so either will do I spose. If it starts, it was the batt, if not, then the batt aint got anything to do with it.
Cheers for the help mate...

AMurphy

No light whatsoever, door, emergency, brake, glovebox, etc?.

Check the batt, and assuming it is OK, while you are at it, remove clean both terminals and cable clamps before reinstalling.
I've known cars to go completely dead for nothing more than corrosion between the terminal and the batt clamp.
I have also seen a car fail due to corrosion within the primary cable itself.... odd that it did not blow/fuse before failing...

Then reverify you have the main connections to the Starter, frame and fusepanel intact.
Make up a test lamp, it's very easy or buy one for $5.