RTE 2 Widescreen

JDxtra

On ntl:digital in Dublin RTE 2 is carrying a widescreen flag when it cuts to the ad breaks. This has the effect of switching my TV into widescreen mode (eventhough they are actually still broadcasting in 4:3).

A sign of things to come?

Elmo

From Medialive.ie
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RTE, in line with industry standards, is moving to widescreen transmission for commercial breaks from 9th May 2005. This is part of an oganisational move towards total widescreen transmission.

In order to assist a timely transition, all commercial copy should be provided in 16:9 Full Height Anamorphic format from February 14th 2005. This is to facilitate the Commercial Library who will need to operate two parallel systems during this transition period.

Existing copy not supplied in 16:9 should be reformatted and delivered to the Commercial Library.

TV3 have also announced a move to widescreen which is expected to be effective from July 2005.
_________________________________________________________________

Round Cable

Ok RTE1/2 are able to transmit in widescreen now, and from the 9th of May it sounds like only adverts will be transmitted in widescreen, or am I reading this incorectly?

wheresmejumper

I think it should be more than just ad breaks, the site referenced seems to only be interested in media advertising so makes sense that they'd only mention the requirement for advertisers.

Telefís

Hmmm - I can't see many of RTE's flagships switching over yet though, esp the news where the format will raise significant shot composition problems with the current set and graphics. The Late Late and most other studio productions are still shot in 4:3.
Still, they're pretty much all that have to be converted, all independent productions are already shot in 16:9.

Anyone know when a widescreen signal will be actually transmitted in Ireland though?
Do we have to wait for DTT?

Round Cable

RTE wrote:

Anyone know when a widescreen signal will be actually transmitted in Ireland though?
Do we have to wait for DTT?

Yes; a widescreen signal will be transmitted in June 2005 by TV3 on all digital platforms.

We'll be waiting a while for DTT...

Telefís

Thanks Round Cable - will RTE be transmitting in widescreen on the Sky platform in May?

Round Cable

RTE wrote:

Thanks Round Cable - will RTE be transmitting in widescreen on the Sky platform in May?

I don't know, there's another thread saying all ads should be in amamorphic widesceen from May, however I'll wait for an official announcement.

icdg

On the NTL-specific issue (though that should really be in Cable/MMDS), the sending of the widescreen flag seems to be rather irratic. In fact, I've had to switch to analogue (or set picture setting to 16:9) to view the image correctly at times. Not just during ad breaks, during programmes too!

channelsurfer

has anyone noticed that channel4 is using the switching of 16/9 automatically unlike rte who swicth their 14/9 tol leave black lines at the side. if channel 4 can do it proprely why cant rte..oh wait they have not got that far yet..its rte after all

Telefís

What exactly does a 14:9 image look like transmitted in standard 4:3? Does it just refer to the 'going half way' practice of zooming in a bit on a 16:9 image leaving a small letterbox/black band effect at the top and bottom, and with only small amounts of the image cropped at the sides? (eg the BBC News practice). If not, what is this practice called does anyone know?
It's a very effective solution to the transition process from 4:3 & 16:9.

Presumably this is what RTE will engage in on analogue when/if they eventually go totally widescreen on digital.

Mossy Monk

RTÉ already do 14:9 for programmes such as Home & Away, Eastenders etc. it has the thin black bars along the top allowing for more of the picture to be seen on the sides

Round Cable

RTE wrote:

What exactly does a 14:9 image look like transmitted in standard 4:3? Does it just refer to the 'going half way' practice of zooming in a bit on a 16:9 image leaving a small letterbox/black band effect at the top and bottom, and with only small amounts of the image cropped at the sides? (eg the BBC News practice). If not, what is this practice called does anyone know?
It's a very effective solution to the transition process from 4:3 & 16:9.

Presumably this is what RTE will engage in on analogue when/if they eventually go totally widescreen on digital.

I have to disagree, my opinion on the is simple: transmit in 4:3 or 16:9, when I watch a programme in 14:9 I do not get rid of the small black bars, as you loose picture resolution, and a 4:3 TV owner has to endure black bars at the top and bottom anyway, so everyone looses. Again I point to TV3, all 4:3 except Corrie/Emmerdale but when they go widescreen all will be 16:9, 14:9 is the Devil's work.

You're correct 14:9 will remain on analouge anyway due to space shotage.

The Westerner

Interestingly enough i think RTE2 actually broadcasted a film in proper anamorphic widescreen over the christmas holidays. Regretably i cant remember the film or exact date (possibly the early morning of 29 Dec.). On my Sony widescreen tv the picture only looked right when on the 'wide' setting. It was a 'Panavision' (2.35:1) film with thinner than normal black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. Was this a genuine mistake by rte or are they covertly preparing us for widescreen broadcasting? Being a pessimist i would think it was a mistake!

Telefís

Yep - this happens occasionally; the transmission aspect ratio detector doesn't always pick up everything. The switching used to be done manually by Presentation but it's automatic now, as with all other broadcasters. The West Wing gets broadcast anamorphically the odd time too - often switches to 14:9 after a few minutes after some techician bursts into the control room

I see your point Round Cable, but considering that by far the majority of people still only have 4:3 sets, it is the best solution for progs that are already 16:9 such as imported stuff. It has to be noted though that this is genaerally only where 14:9 is used; where the station has a digital platform or has 16:9 programmes that are imported. In the case of the BBC I can see why they use it being the markeyt leader and having so many digital channels. Likwise with major dramas, documentary and feature programmes, 16:9 is necessary to future-proof what are expensive productions, and progs that'll have an international audience.

But yes I'd largely agree that 4:3 should be stuck to in Ireland for indigenous productions, esp for news & current affairs, as comparitively few people watch RTE via digital. Why should we suffer composition problems and resolution loss for the sake of a minority of viewers?
Of note is that Channel 4 broadcast their news in 4:3 despite everything else being 16:9 - an acknowledgement of its analogue audience.

zilog_jones

I really hate it when some channels (namely Channel 4 and BBC) convert old programs from 4:3 to 14:9 - seriously, what's the point? It just makes them look all blurry and crap (even worse when they're NTSC conversions)...

Charles Slane

RTE wrote:

Of note is that Channel 4 broadcast their news in 4:3 despite everything else being 16:9 - an acknowledgement of its analogue audience.

The real reason that Channel 4 news is in 4:3 is that it's supplied by ITN, and they don't have 16:9 capabilities yet.

When ITN switch to 16:9, Channel 4's news will appear in that ratio - there is no loyalty to their analogue audience.

Telefís

Ah - but isn't ITV ITN News shot in 16:9 via 14:9?
To be honest I can't remember off the top of my head but I think it is...
Then again the big CG monitor used for satellite reports in bulletins is 4:3...must check it out.

celticfc

RTE wrote:

Ah - but isn't ITV ITN News shot in 16:9 via 14:9?
To be honest I can't remember off the top of my head but I think it is...
Then again the big CG monitor used for satellite reports in bulletins is 4:3...must check it out.

Only UTV bother to crop the 4:3 originated picture to 14:9, the other ITV regions don't. I can't see what the point is. (Although UTV's local news "UTV Live" is shot in 16:9)

SkepticOne

RTE wrote:

But yes I'd largely agree that 4:3 should be stuck to in Ireland for indigenous productions, esp for news & current affairs, as comparitively few people watch RTE via digital. Why should we suffer composition problems and resolution loss for the sake of a minority of viewers?
Of note is that Channel 4 broadcast their news in 4:3 despite everything else being 16:9 - an acknowledgement of its analogue audience.

But can't analogue transmissions handle anamorphic 16:9 too? A while back, I noticed (I think it was E4) causing the TV to switch to widescreen for some programmes. This was over analogue NTL cable.

celticfc

SkepticOne wrote:

But can't analogue transmissions handle anamorphic 16:9 too? A while back, I noticed (I think it was E4) causing the TV to switch to widescreen for some programmes. This was over analogue NTL cable.

Yes, but there would be a ridiculous amount of moanage from people without widescreen TV's and people with TV's that don't have an autoformat function (to convert an animorphic picture into a letterbox image).

Also, a lot of people don't like 16:9 letterbox images (esp. on small 14" TV's) as the black bars take up so much space, so 14:9 pictures are the compromise. It was due to that, that E4 on ntl: analogue was changed to 14:9 by ntl after getting a barrage of complaints.

Telefís

Thanks for that celticfc- so how do UTV crop the 4:3 ITV image for 16:9/14:9?
If they zoom in, the pic composition still doesn't seem to be affected - headroom & graphics etc are fine. Do ITN just take account of this when framing?

On a related note I see the Renault graphic at the beginning of the Late Late was converted to 16:9 two weeks ago in anticipation of the 'deadline'.