Argentina to join 6 nations

KevIRL · 16-01-2005 4:57pm #1

In a very interesting column in the Sunday Times today Stephen Jones argues for Argentina's inclusion in the 6 nations (making it the 7 nations of course).

I have to say I agree with him. Any thoughts from the board?

Amz · 16-01-2005 5:09pm

Does he propose that Argentina hold home games or will they play all of their games in Europe?

I'd like to see them included it'd make it more interesting definitely, but if teams are going to have to play matches in Argentina I'm not sure it'd be workable. Fans from Europe are unlikely to travel to Argenitna and Argentinian fans are unlikely to travel more than once to away matches.

Maybe if they had a neutral venue somewhere like Germany or something ...

Argentina could bring a lot to the competition.

daveirl · 16-01-2005 5:14pm

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Amz · 16-01-2005 5:19pm

That's true.

It'd make much more sense for them to play in the Tri Nations.

daveirl · 16-01-2005 5:25pm

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Amz · 16-01-2005 5:29pm

daveirl wrote:

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I always assumed that was the case alright.

Is it that they feel they've more to lose by allowing in the likes of Argenitna?

daveirl · 16-01-2005 5:37pm

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Amz · 16-01-2005 5:40pm

Yeah and the North American teams aren't close to a standard that'd make a competition there worthwhile.

KevIRL · 16-01-2005 5:49pm

Invite Puma's to the Party

Since when has Argentina been in Europe? It isnt, but in rugby terms perhaps it should be. Rugby Union, if it has any sense of commercial power, should seriously be considering allowing Argentina to enter the annual international championship to form the stronger Seven Nations tournament.
This is an avarioucious age in rugby. The three giant southern hemisphere nations recently completed negotiations for a new television deal.
This floats their rugby operations for the next five years. Good luck to South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.
But there is a fourth great power in the southern hemisphere, and it was typical of this greedy time in rughby that the door was simply slammed shut in Argentine facesm simply so the others could split the pot in as few different directions as possible.
It was a desparately short-sighted move. The benefits to rugby of the advent of professionalism nearly 10 years ago are Myriad.
But perhaps the cheif drawback, the running score, has been the collapse of the second tier nations of the world game game so that these days only a maximum of six teams could possibly win the World Cup. Others have faded fast simply because, for all theor other strength and spirit, they lack the overwhelming financial clout of the oldfoundation unions.
Argentina unquestionably, have the resources to be amoung the top five nations in the world, and on their day, they can beat virtually anyone.
Last autumn they hammered France in Marseille. They also have public appeal. A few years ago, nearly 100,000 people watched Argentina play New Zealand in the River Plate stadium in Buenos Aires.
But Argentina's international programme is severely fractured. The lack consistent competition, and apart from the World Cup, they do not play in any really significant events. It means their preparation is sketchy and their preparation is sketchy and their players are easy prey for French clubs which sign them on the unwritten but express understanding that they will give up playing international rugby for the Pumas.
What a marvellous gesture it would be if the main European nations went to their aid and invited them to join our party. The Six Nations is still the powerhouse of world rugby and is envied the world over.
At its basic level, the participation of Argentina would give everyone £750,000 extra income per season, simply from basic entry payments alone, leaving aside the extra revenue from television and all the other possibilities. The rest of the season would need to be reconstituted so that the extra games were balanced by a reduction of top rugby elsewhere.
Otherwise it would be perfect, and surprisingly free from practical problems. The time zone in Argentina is practically the same. The flight time of about 11 hours is manageable. Greater distances are travelled between combatants in the Tri-Nations and Super 12 tournaments in the southern hemisphere. There are overnight flights to Buenos Aries, so players would arrive reasonably fresh.
Argentina would probably come on a mini-tour to play two or three away games, and they would be visited by teams making one-off tips. There would be some inconvenience, although that would be offset not only by the financial benefits, but also by the fact that within a year or two, rugby would have another srious contender for the world title.
Argentina is a fantastic rugby nation. It is full of noble forwards and engaging players. It is well past time that the rest of the world engaged them.
They have been ignored by the southern hemisphere, and they should be sworn in as soon as possible as a kind of outside but warmly welcomed new force in the north.

KevIRL · 16-01-2005 5:52pm

daveirl wrote:

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I would disagree completely, surely Ireland can only gain by playing more games against the top teams. At the moment Scotland and ITaly are not competitive in the 6 nations, leaving us with 3 games. If Wales decide not to turn as they did last year then its down to 2. Also by playing the Pumas more often then the needle element is taken out of the game, which is only a good thing for us.

Nukem · 16-01-2005 6:53pm

Nah!!!! This type of stuff has been knocking around for ages i would take little notice.There have been reported groups interested in differnt little nation cups. Such as Canad-Arg-USA and a few others maybe. Tonga-Fiji-Samoa-Japan.
Stuff like that but Arg in the 6nations

never be allowed i would reckon. Would benifit Arg too much

[Jackass] · 16-01-2005 11:09pm

No question in my mind the arrgies should be allowed into the tri-nations, also no question that the current tri-nations would never allow it because their dominence of the game has already diminished so much, infact it doesnt exist anymore, and that much competitve action for any team will improve their national game....just look at Italy, no longer a team of strong men upfront with no skill, and hairy girls in the back who can run fast...but can't tackle....they actually play rugby now, and pretty well too, if it wasn't for the lack of interest and funding in Italy, they would be up there with the scots and welsh more consistantly by now.
That wouldn't happen in Argentina, as it's already a big sport (and a amazing side considering they only play against world class opistion competetively one in every four years), but a pacific tornemant should be formed to develop the game (as somebody already said) including the likes of samoa, tonga,fiji,argentina, possibly even U.S. and Canada.
I wouldnt want them in the 6 nations as that's the European competition, but i would like to see a 6 nations "B" tournement also to develop the game in Europe with the likes of Romania (who have made so much backwards steps since the 80's with a lack of competitve action), georgia, russia, spain, and so on....maybe even some day have a relegation/promotion situation each year with bottom 6 nations team.top "B" nations team.

daveirl · 17-01-2005 10:09am

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Hairy Homer · 17-01-2005 11:25am

DubGuy22 wrote:

i would like to see a 6 nations "B" tournement also to develop the game in Europe with the likes of Romania (who have made so much backwards steps since the 80's with a lack of competitve action), georgia, russia, spain, and so on....maybe even some day have a relegation/promotion situation each year with bottom 6 nations team.top "B" nations team.

Hear Hear!!!

Sounds like a statement of the bleeding obvious but it needs to be said. And I hope that Italy continue to make progress. Nothing would be better for the game than for Italy to beat one of the (current) big three of the Six Nations. As long as it's not us of course.

Mungaman · 17-01-2005 12:01pm

daveirl wrote:

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Dave you couldn't be further from the truth. I don't know where you get your information from but its way off. Fiji, Samoa, Pacific Islands and Tonga are bailed out and supported to the tune of Millions every year by the NZRFU.
SANZAR made the decision not to allow another team into the tri seires but with an option to expand to a larger competition in 2006. This has been mooted at a five nation competiton including a Pacific Islands team and also the posibility of the Pumas. New Zealand has the same governed rules to picking players as Ireland does. If your not elligable for the team you can't play. The NZRFU has paid for teams every year to come to NZ from all over the world to grow world rugby. They also send players and coaches to countries growing the game, such as the rugby to Russia campaign.
New Zealand is also the biggest Pacific Nation in the world. We have more Cook Islanders, Fijians, Samoans, Tongans, Nueans, Soloman Islanders, living in New Zealnd than do in there own country.
Tongans , Fijians, Cook Islanders all hold New Zealand Passports.
The resurgance of Northern Hemisphere Rugby is not resented by anyone. An influx of Southern Hemisphere players and coaches has definatly also been a factor in the resurgance that you speak of. Not also forgetting the influx of Pacific islanders who haven't been released by European Clubs to represent there countries in recent times.
I fully agree with the comments made for a European comp with emerging nations as a competition. Lets not forget that its a world game and if we made everyone stick to their repective provences it would be a sad day but then again theres proably a few here that would like it.

daveirl · 17-01-2005 4:20pm

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Mungaman · 17-01-2005 5:28pm

Dave calmly re read the post you originally put up and the reply it recieved.
Its only a game mate and I'm not one for tit for tat point arguments.
Goodluck for the Six Nations and yes I will never forget 1978

spanner · 17-01-2005 9:01pm

daveirl wrote:

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that doesnt make sense, dont let them join because they might (and maybe already) better than us. one of the biggest problems in world rugby is spreading the game around the globe and bridging the hudge gap between the top tier and the lower tier. if the tri nations are to short sighted to let them in we should.

uberwolf · 17-01-2005 9:13pm

argentina into 6 nations would be a logistical nightmare - all sporting arguments aside

daveirl · 17-01-2005 10:40pm

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KevIRL · 18-01-2005 7:56pm

daveirl wrote:

Why doesn't that make sense. We have a target of a semi-final in the next RWC and the less Argentina know about our game plan the harder it'll be to achieve this.

I'm just saying that it would penalise us more than any of the other 5 nations. QUOTE]

Short term viewpoint only Dave. We can only BENEFIT from playing the top class sides more often IMO.

Third_Echelon · 18-01-2005 8:14pm

Argentina should definitely join the 3N.

With regards to joining the 6N, from a logistics point of view as uberwolf has stated it would be madness :eek: I very much doubt many fans from the current 6N countries would make the trip to south america very often, if at all.....

In my eyes, the only logical progression for the argies is to join the 3N.

While I was in NZ over the summer the pacific islanders formed a 'super team' comprising of the best players from samoa, tonga, fiji etc and they were pretty good. They played NZ and I watched a bit of it on TV. Cant remember who won, but they played well. The addition of the islanders and argentina could only benefit the 3N tournament from a development point of view. The current 3N nations mightn't like it too much though, but for rugby to develop more these countries should be included...

Trojan · 19-01-2005 12:22am

I think it's quite a distance for them to the 3N too

That, and for SA (closer to us I believe).

spanner · 21-01-2005 4:06pm

Third_Echelon wrote:

Argentina should definitely join the 3N.

With regards to joining the 6N, from a logistics point of view as uberwolf has stated it would be madness :eek: I very much doubt many fans from the current 6N countries would make the trip to south america very often, if at all.....

QUOTE]

might be nice to get another destination in the sun thats a bit different to us rome and paris have proved a big hit

[Jackass] · 21-01-2005 4:07pm

daveirl wrote:

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:eek:
I thought it was a random draw from four seeds (us being a 2nd seed), but is it done purely on rank from previous wc's? If that is our group, its a shame, i thought we'd have a decent chance of winning our group as long as we dont get France, who i think will win the competition outright, and avoiding Argentina was another big factor for me, but they'll be dissapointed too, getting the strongest 2nd seed team again, and the only one they wouldnt be favourites to beat, and bring rugby into a new era by making the Q\F...but i suppose on the plus side if we do make it out of the group of Death (again), at least we wont get France in the QF...is there any way of knowing already who we'll get in the QF?