Paypal - Buying outside Ebay

yop

Lads
I came across some goods on Ebay. I went and looked at the companies website and picked about 6 items I wanted to purchase, so I emailed them and they said that if I bought them through the company instead of using EBAY then they would discount it.
Now he wants to use PAYPAL to pay for the goods, am I protected if I pay by paypal?

many thanks

PS- I may have posted in incorrect forum, move if needs be

A Dub in Glasgo

He wants to sell outside of ebay because he will not have to pay ebay his selling fees. He will give you a proportion of the savings. Paypal is a payment service when paying from an internet shopfront. If anything went wrong, you would dispute the charge with your credit card company like any other internet purchase. I assume you are paying by credit card (rather than a balance from your Paypal account) and your credit card company offer protection against fraud for internet shopping.

yop

I am lad, you reckon it would be ok??

2 Espressi

should be ok, i've done it before, plenty of shops have a website, and sell on ebay too.

yop

2 Espressi - Thanks lad, good to know someone has gone with it.

lomb

www.paypalsucks.com

AlisonB

i reckon you're fine with paypal.. i had a lecturer once (complete hacker) for internet security .. he wouldnt use anything but paypal.. go for it...

A Dub in Glasgo

Paypal are fine if a seller can prove he sent you something. That something could be crap for all Paypal care, they will not be interested if a seller has conned you by putting crap in a package.

I only use Paypal because ultimately I can claim off my credit card company if I have been conned.

ambro25

lomb wrote:

www.paypalsucks.com

Paypal sucks for sellers, lomb, not buyers - and that's for occasional sellers, not semi-pros/pros (once you compare Paypal fees to direct affiliation with CC associations).

RicardoSmith

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Paypal are fine if a seller can prove he sent you something. That something could be crap for all Paypal care, they will not be interested if a seller has conned you by putting crap in a package.

I only use Paypal because ultimately I can claim off my credit card company if I have been conned.

I use it via my cc to. I wonder does it protect you though.

A Dub in Glasgo

My credit cards (Halifax & MBNA) guarantee online transactions against fraud. When you pay via Paypal, the payment will appear in the name of the seller as well as Paypal.

A Dub in Glasgo

ambro25 wrote:

Paypal sucks for sellers, lomb, not buyers - and that's for occasional sellers, not semi-pros/pros (once you compare Paypal fees to direct affiliation with CC associations).

Paypal is not so good for buyers if the seller can prove he sent a package to you. Paypal are not interested in what is in the package. The seller could have sent you any old crap and Paypal will not be interested once they have a 'delivered' signature.

ambro25

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Paypal is not so good for buyers if the seller can prove he sent a package to you. Paypal are not interested in what is in the package. The seller could have sent you any old crap and Paypal will not be interested once they have a 'delivered' signature.

There has always been and always will be an element of risk in online shopping, so long as the buyer doesn't go a brick-&-mortar shop to touchy-feely actual goods, so let's not get too pedantic - at least Paypal (and others) are trying to minimize that risk.

So, re. your point, it depends if that any old crap was bought via eBay or not.
If bought via eBay, there is a recourse (i.e. goods substantially not as described).
If not bought via eBay, then Paypal or not makes no difference whatsoever - you have the same recourses (or absence thereof) through Paypal than through your CC, if the seller can prove he's sent something and it's sub-sepc. In fairness, it's down to the buyer 'appreciating' how reliable an online shop looks/feels (+ doing some background checks, via Google or otherwise), in absence of eBay-type feedback.
In this respect, Paypal is better (than no Paypal at all)because it gives feedback (via 'accreditation'/'points') about online shops.

A Dub in Glasgo

ambro25 wrote:

so let's not get too pedantic - at least Paypal (and others) are trying to minimize that risk.

No pedantic about it, Paypal are owned by ebay and the vast majority of transactions are ebay related. In the circumstance where a seller can prove he sent something, Paypal will not be interested.

So, re. your point, it depends if that any old crap was bought via eBay or not.
If bought via eBay, there is a recourse (i.e. goods substantially not as described).

The maximum anybody can get back from ebay (if ebay agree with your side of the story) is £105 (£120 max minus the £15 excess). For items under £15, nobody will get anything back.

If not bought via eBay, then Paypal or not makes no difference whatsoever - you have the same recourses (or absence thereof) through Paypal than through your CC, if the seller can prove he's sent something and it's sub-sepc.

Which is exactly what I said previously

In fairness, it's down to the buyer 'appreciating' how reliable an online shop looks/feels (+ doing some background checks, via Google or otherwise), in absence of eBay-type feedback.
In this respect, Paypal is better (than no Paypal at all)because it gives feedback (via 'accreditation'/'points') about online shops.

Probably but the vast majority of Paypal transactions are ebay related and they are not interested if the ebay seller sent fake/faulty/different/not as described goods as long as the seller got sent it via a trackable service. Nowdays, I don't even bother with Paypal or ebay protection policies as they are sub standard to the free online transaction policy offered by my credit card companies.

ambro25

I know that Paypal and eBay are one, and that their risk-policies are biased towards profit and avoidance (whose aren't?) but:

1) the topic of this thread is whether to pay through Paypal for goods purchased outside of eBay, i.e. not an eBay item or from an eBay shop, e.g. from Lik-Sang (HK videogames wholesaler/retailer).

and in this context,

2) I'd rather provide Paypal details only (i.e. a shipping address and an email which, incidentally & in my case, is an email address I use only for Paypal and/or eBay) than my actual credit card details to any online shop that I don't know from Adam, thus which may be a front and send me the kind of crap you're on about (and such place would present, IMHO, a much higher risk of attempting to use my card details fraudulently).

Therefore, I'd much rather take my risks (like anybody who's buying from other online retailers than Amazon ) with Paypal in-between me and the retailer, than gingerly hand out my card details to said retailer, thank you very much. If the retailer proves worthy after 2-3 transactions, then I would consider not using Paypal and transacting direct (especially if the exchange rate is more favourable with going direct).

RicardoSmith

Why when the credit card is covered and you've only limited liability anyway?

ambro25

The whole point of Paypal, is that the merchant never knows your cc details. No other point to it whatsoever. The 'paying instantly' blah is just marketing, you still need 2-3 days to setup a Paypal account, so in reality (for 1st time users) it a lot less convenient than standard retail SSL solutions.

So, in this regard, and to answer your question: because it's less hassle obtaining a recourse through Paypal (in case of dodgy goods/no goods at all) than it is cancelling a cc & running through hoops to ensure the bank covers the unauthorized use of the card (in case of card misuse by the merchant) - assuming still that you'd know pretty quickly if it was being misused, else the first you become aware of it is a month later :eek: , at which point you'll get to experience how 'limited' the liability really is .

I've experienced it twice (before Paypal) and got to be rather shy since with cc or any kind of banking details over the Web.

A Dub in Glasgo

I have got to say that you will be in for a rude awakening if you need a refund though Paypal. I have found the whole process more hassle than my credit card company. I have an online credit card account which means I can check my balance at will. I have never cancelled my cc account, I have just got the disputed item 'refunded' and the cc company guarantees online transactions. It was no hassle what so ever. I suppose it depends on the particular credit card company you are with.

Only a tiny % of retailers accept the Paypal method of payments and the rest use standard credit card processing so you are not going to do much online shopping by avioding standard retail credit card methods.