*sigh*

Xterminator

Now they arrest the very people who try to help them overcome their endemic problems, which no doubt they blame on the 'christian' developed world.

I think a full set of sanctions similar to Iran's would be in order if they carry out their threats!

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"Man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle against the urge to punch ‘em in the face, and for what?! For some pimply little puke to treat you like dirt unless you're on a team. Well I'm better than dirt ... well most kinds of dirt. I mean, not that fancy, store-bought dirt. That stuff’s loaded with nutrients. I …I can't compete with that stuff."
-Moe Szyslak

Shroom

too me this all looks like blatant provocation, do they think the americans/europeans will just sit there and look whilst their nationals are shot? i dont think so. The sooner the country is occupied and its government replaced the better......

Belisarius

Well the chances of any World Intervention are quite frankly negligible , I mean getting any sort of Peacekeeping force out there would be a logistical Nightmare ,and proabably just plain undoable , and the Air War tactics they seem so fond of would be useless as theyres very little for them to carpet bomb , and lets not forget this is afghanistan , as the Russians will testify , Its no walk in the park .

On the subject of Sanctions , well they proabably will in the end , but I doubt itll cripple the Afghan economy or anything , Im mean is theyre even an Afghan economy?

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The Man From Delmonte , He Say "Yes"

Hobbes

More information

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Economy - overview: Afghanistan is an extremely poor, landlocked country, highly dependent on farming and livestock raising (sheep and goats). Economic considerations have played second fiddle to political and military upheavals during two decades of war, including the nearly 10-year Soviet military occupation (which ended 15 February 1989). During that conflict one-third of the population fled the country, with Pakistan and Iran sheltering a combined peak of more than 6 million refugees. In early 1999, 1.2 million Afghan refugees remained in Pakistan and about 1.4 million in Iran. Gross domestic product has fallen substantially over the past 20 years because of the loss of labor and capital and the disruption of trade and transport. The majority of the population continues to suffer from insufficient food, clothing, housing, and medical care. Inflation remains a serious problem throughout the country. International aid can deal with only a fraction of the humanitarian problem, let alone promote economic development. The economic situation did not improve in 1998-99, as internal civil strife continued, hampering both domestic economic policies and international aid efforts. Numerical data are likely to be either unavailable or unreliable. Afghanistan was by far the largest producer of opium poppies in 1999, and narcotics trafficking is a major source of revenue.

</font>

Shroom

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Belisarius:
Well the chances of any World Intervention are quite frankly negligible , I mean getting any sort of Peacekeeping force out there would be a logistical Nightmare ,and proabably just plain undoable , and the Air War tactics they seem so fond of would be useless as theyres very little for them to carpet bomb , and lets not forget this is afghanistan , as the Russians will testify , Its no walk in the park .

On the subject of Sanctions , well they proabably will in the end , but I doubt itll cripple the Afghan economy or anything , Im mean is theyre even an Afghan economy?
</font>

Maybe i was a litle quick in saying occupy the place, BUT to my knowledge there is still a war going on there. Taliban control the majority of the country, but the opposing factions (under general Massood i think) are still maintaining their opposition. Maybe international aid (supplies, food, maybe weapons, to the factions NOT to the taliban) would decide the matter for once and for all??


ps: afghan economy:Afghanistan was by far the largest producer of opium poppies in 1999, AND probably still is.....

[This message has been edited by Shroom (edited 08-08-2001).]

Shinji

There's no chance of military intervention because the bleeding heart liberals over here would bleet about it, frankly.

If the western governments had any guts they'd have occupied Afghanistan, trialled the leaders of the Taliban for war crimes and started an extensive program of modernisation and re-education of the population.

Of course, such intervention would be shouted about by liberal tossers who'd describe it as killing Afghanistani culture and depriving them of their right to democracy within about 20 minutes of the Taliban being removed.

Kopf

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shroom:
too me this all looks like blatant provocation, do they think the americans/europeans will just sit there and look whilst their nationals are shot? i dont think so. The sooner the country is occupied and its government replaced the better......</font>

You don't think an invasion just *might* spark off a fscking huge war?

Belisarius

lol Okay there *is* an economy , my point was its just the odd poppy field and a few cows , as the paragraph indicated , Sanctions would have minimal effect

As for Intervention well as Shinji said theres no chance of it , but I dont think id agree with the reasons , I mean theyre always be some arty liberal Muppet section of society that will oppose anything and everything , but as previous excursions in the name of world peace and democracy have shown , its usually swep away in a media frenzy , The real problem is any Initiative by the western Governments would be that due to the extremely awkward location of afghanistan *both Geographically and Politcally , or even GeoPolitcally* a Largescale operation would almost undoubtedly be met with Casualties of some sort , and in this day and age of the "PR war" thats just unacceptable , The cost and logistical troubles of moving a Mechanised ground force and a Large Airforce into some backwater in Central asia is daunting , and in the end of the day its just not "Big news" People just arent intrested .This isnt the best mix for a Peacekeeping operation

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The Man From Delmonte , He Say "Yes"

Shroom

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kopf:
You don't think an invasion just *might* spark off a fscking huge war?</font>

No i don't, i have an afghani m8 who i have talked to about this on many occasions.
The Taliban have been a thorn in the eye for many countries since it "officially" became the new government of Afghanistan. I think everyone (including the Afghani's themselves) would be delighted to see them leave.

Shroom

BTW: lets drop the whole "invasion afghanistan" idea, my point was there are other methods (ie, sanctions, economic support, political support etc.)

bugler

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">If the western governments had any guts they'd have occupied Afghanistan, trialled the leaders of the Taliban for war crimes..</font>

I think you mean if the Western Governments gave a shít about Afghanistan, or if there was anything to be gained out of doing such a thing.

As for the Northern Alliance, well they only control about 10 percent of the country, and the common people aren't too fond of them either, seen as how when they briefly held power in the mid 90's they massacred hundreds in Kabuls streets.

Iran, India and Russia support the Northern Alliance with arms, but not much else.Whereas Pakistan directly supports the Taliban, its air force bomb NA postions, and it's troops(Regular and special forces) fight on the ground when needed.

Hobbes

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/08/07/afghan.unmoved/index.html

the fnj

It's about time someone tried to put and end to those damn Christians and their evil ideals.

On a serious note you really have to question the logic of the authorities over there.

"Look at these nice people helping us out in our time of need.... Is that a crucifix KILL THEM, KILL THEM ALL".

Lex_Diamonds

INVASION: Russia tried it and then pulled out after getting nowhere and being killed by the mujahadin

SANCTIONS: Classically innefective at deposing leaders as seen in Iraq and Cuba.

SUPPLYING ARMS: Likely to lead to other problems, the weighing scales will tip violently to anotehr side. If the N.A. gain power they may be as bad as the Taliban.

LIKELY OUTCOME: International community will stay out of it for the forseeable future because there is nothing to be gained for them by doing any of the above.

Lex_Diamonds

Me pictures the Vaggabond being nabbed in work by his boss in the middle of typing that

tHE vAGGABOND

So they are different, and they seem mad as a brush to us. But they do have a right to do what they want. Everyone can’t live by Shinji's mad and wacky rules of the world - Christ imagine the place then

If nothing else, If the American government can kill people for whatever reason why cant the Taliban?

Hobbes posted his piece above, that shows how much **** the country is in and how poor it is. It is very easy for religious nutters to take a poor cou

Hobbes

I think he's talking about your post ending mid sentance/word.

Shinji has a point. You can't just go invade a country because you don't agree with what they are doing.

I've listened to Chinese nationals tell me that they didn't invade Tibet, that Tibet was mostly Chinese and they wanted to be with China. Likewise with Taiwan (only no invading bit). Likewise with someone from Singapore telling me they should invade Maylasia to "help it out".

(Without researching) I would say at a guess that it was international intervention that got the Taliban into power in the first case.

And if another coutry does invade, then what? Who gets into power?

swiss

The problem seems to be the fact that so many people are indoctrinated to a set of beliefs that such a strict and brutal government can exist largely unchecked by it's people. The Taliban regime has banned a whole plethora of what the Western world deems basic comforts and the most innocuous of luxuries. They have banned Chess, if I remember correctly... also any image that depicts a living creature is banned. Don't even mention such things as cinema. Media is strictly controlled. The problem is that some people in that country believe that this is how the country should be run.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The Taliban say they have also sent 59 children who were being taught by the arrested workers to a correctional facility, where they would remain until all traces of Christianity were removed. </font>

Doubtlessly this 'correction' will lead to these children, whose minds are young, innocent and impressionable to come out in favor of the regime - thus propogating the culture of fanatical loyalty towards the regime. I think I now might just come up with a signature quote.

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"Question everything or shut up and be a victim of authority" - Greenday

tHE vAGGABOND

er..
what?