Now here's a hand for you!

Imposter

Right have a look at this and if you feel like it answer what you'd do (or any thoughts) at each stage. Or just comment on the whole thing.

I've got 44.
Game is 0.25/0.5 PL 6-seater

> S1 posted small blind ($0.25)
> S2 posted big blind ($0.50)
> Dealing Hole Cards
> S3 folded
> S4 folded
> S5 called for $0.50
> Me called for $0.50
> S1 folded
> S2 checked
Flop:

> Dealing the Flop(9ªAª9©)

After Flop:

> S2 checked
> S5 checked
> Me bet for $1.75
> S2 called for $1.75
> S5 called for $1.75

Turn:

> Dealing the turn(4©)

After turn:

> S2 checked
> S5 checked
> Me bet for $2
> S2 called for $2
> S5 raised for $8
> Me called for $6
> S2 went all-in for $7.75
> S5 raised for $36.25
> Me raised for $70.75
> S5 went all-in for $16.75
> Extra chips returned to Me, $17.75

River and the money:

> Dealing the river(9¨)
> S2 shows a Full House, Nines full of Aces
(9ª9©9¨AªA¨)
> S5 shows Four of a Kind, Nines
(9ª9©9¨9§Aª)
> S5 wins $135.75 with Four of a Kind, Nines

accensi0n

Whats there to comment on?.....

Iago

For me

I'd of raised $1-$2 preflop to see where I stood, 44 isn't a strong enough hand to limp in with, any flop that doesn't have a 4 is going to make you fold.

After the flop, you have to be running scared, it's been checked to you but because you didn't bet preflop you have no idea what hands you're up against. A bet here isn't a big mistake, but you run the risk of what you're up against. You have to be thinking that someone is potentially slowplaying two pair or trips. maybe even a FH

On the turn you may think you're ahead but really here I'd see myself behind. A minimum bet would be ok, but I don't think I would commit my entire stack here.

As it turns out you were unlucky on the river, but which of those players would have played against a reasonable preflop raise? With a low pp you should raise preflop or fold if you don't hit the flop imho. i know cash games are about value, but sometimes you have to take the small pots preflop

Lafortezza

As I read it you were ahead with your house of 4's full of 9's on the turn.
S5 was slowplaying his 9 (trip 9's), S2 had two pair (A's and 9's).
The river fúcked you in the ass and you came last!

River cards to make you lose: the case 9, 1 out of 2 Aces. Three cards total, unless I'm missing something v obvious.

Would you do anything different if it happened again?

Lafortezza

Iago wrote:

On the turn you may think you're ahead but really here I'd see myself behind. A minimum bet would be ok, but I don't think I would commit my entire stack here.

On the turn there are only 3 hands he's behind. AA, 99, A9. A9 is the only one that might not raise preflop. Get all the money in asap!

Iago

you're playing 6 handed and you're either in the BB or second last to act, there have been 2 folders and one player left to act before the blinds. Would you definitely raise preflop with AA, 99 or A9, or would you limp in and let others see the flop?

Once the flop comes down with one of these hands would you check or raise?

If you don't have one of these three hands would you call a raise of $1.75, and if so what hand would you have where you would call this raise?

My point is that on the turn he was ahead, but with that flop and the action prior to the turn, how many times will you be ahead when that 4 hits? My real point is that I feel a preflop raise would have given a better indication of where you stood against the other players

editing for clarity; What I'm trying to get at is that without a preflop raise you have no idea what to put the other players on. More often than not with 44 you won't get any help on the flop. If he had bet $1.75 and been raised all-in on the flop would he have called? What's to say that the fh hadn't already hit and was being slowplayed?

A9, 99 or AA are entirely probable pocket hands here based on the betting pattern

Lafortezza

True, shorthanded I'd usually give the 4's a raise.

But this isn't at massively high limits, and with 4 to the flop (3 active the BB folds quick enough) any 9 on that flop is a monster to be slowplayed. Any Ace will probably call down bet to the river as long as its cheap enough. Any pocket pair (like the 4's in this case *should* bet it if checked to.
Firstly to try and win the pot, secondly to gauge what hands you're up against.
On a flop like that I could see 88, JJ, AK going all the way with you to the river doubting that you have a nine.

On the turn you have to think you are ahead. You can't go seeing monsters in the corner (AA, 99, A9 are the only hands you're behind), you have to get all the money in.

Iago wrote:

Would you definitely raise preflop with AA, 99 or A9, or would you limp in and let others see the flop?

Most of the time with AA, just to get some value in, sometimes I'd just call in early position but I hate letting shíte like J4 in to hit 2 pair. I'd nearly always raise 99, to know where I am if overcards hit the flop. A9 is more a stealing hand than a raising for value hand.

Iago wrote:

My point is that on the turn he was ahead, but with that flop and the action prior to the turn, how many times will you be ahead when that 4 hits?

For me, he's ahead enough of the time to bet every cent I have in front of me.

Hectorjelly

Do we have to use these spoilers all the time? Im finding it really hard to follow whats going on.

Iago

you make a valid point and I'd probably do the same on the turn. For me as I mentioned the big problem is preflop, without a raise you could find yourself in a lot of trouble after the flop. This hand is an extreme example but serves a point.

87% of the time you'll miss the flop, and there will be at least one and possibly two or three overcards on the board, more often than not you're throwing away your 44 at this point to any reasonable bet

Lafortezza

Hectorjelly wrote:

Do we have to use these spoilers all the time? Im finding it really hard to follow whats going on.

I've given up now but its good to use spoiler so people can make up their own minds on a question before reading the replys. Not too hard to click+drag to highlight some text is it?

Hectorjelly

lafortezza wrote:

I've given up now but its good to use spoiler so people can make up their own minds on a question before reading the replys. Not too hard to click+drag to highlight some text is it?

Having the result hidden is a good idea, putting hole posts hidden is over the top IMO. Its given me a headache trying to follow this thread.

ps Dont raise 44 preflop

Iago

sorry about that Hector!

you wouldn't raise preflop with 44 in this case? The idea not being to get more money into the pot but more to close it down before it costs you a lot of money as in this case..

Hectorjelly

Iago wrote:

sorry about that Hector!

you wouldn't raise preflop with 44 in this case? The idea not being to get more money into the pot but more to close it down before it costs you a lot of money as in this case..

No, with small pairs in a cash game just limp in, if you hit a set go nuts, if you dont then dont put another $ into the pot.

Samba

What Hector said....in both posts......

Imposter

Sorry Hector i'll try not to use spoilers here

Here was my thinking as the hand progressed:
I don't raise low PP's preflop. If the hit great, if not I fold. The only exception is when there's a pair on the flop as in this case. Nobody bet the flop and I was now effectively the button. I wanted to know where my 4's stood. I put in a pot size bet now rather than calling something for more money later. S5 had been quite loose in his play up to this so he could have anything. S2 I felt probably had an ace and he would probably of risen with a nine.

After the turn I felt I was ahead. I didn't have either of them on AA or 99 as those hands would have been raised preflop. A9 was a possibility but I felt I had to take the chance that it wasn't out there.

On the turn I bet to try and get money in. A pot size bet by me here would have caused at least one and possibly both of them to fold. So S2 calls meaning he still probably has an A. S5 raises meaning he has a nine. He probably has me on an ace as well. I don't want to dissapoint him so I play along. Then S2 goes all-in and S5 raises over him. Going all-in here was a no-brainer.

And then that 9 hit.

lafortezza I think i'd do the exact same again if I was in that situation.

DeVore

I dont see much wrong with how you played it. I would limp with small pp's and drop them if I dont hit. That costs me 7 blinds out of 8 hands but on the 8th, when I DO hit, oooh, stealth sets are tasty for being paid off. I dunno about raising the flop but its worth a shot to take it there and then since it was checked around to you. On the turn, I'd ram-jam every chip I had in there.

DeV.