Anti-Globalisation and John Pilger

Chaos-Engine · 18-07-2001 11:44pm #1

Did anyone else see that rather informing Documentary on Globalisation the The new World Order(not some Alien Consprancy but the IMF and WB)

It was excellent for the average person who is skeptical of activits. I myself am involved in the Anti-Globalisation movement and didn't find anything too shocking in the documentary... But those i watched it with were completely shocked and wanted instantly to get involved.... John Pilger has a site on his documentaries and will be making an appearance in a Chat room on Monday... cheque it out John Pilger.com

here is another more broad site on the growing Anti-Globalisation movment which is opposted to the continuing errosion of democracy and increasing loss of accountability of "The Elite"

-Sustainable Economics Excellent site on Sustainable Economics Vs Modern(John Smith) Economics... Cheque it out-

-Search anything on the JAK interest Free bank in sweden (attempting to elimate Interest from the Monetary System-

-Irish Global Resistance WEbsite-

-The Convergence festival that took place in temple bar last May(centred on Sustainable Economics and Eco-systems)-

-Genoa G8 Summit social forum(I can read Italian, can u)worth a look(follow links)-

-Sustainable Ireland, Deals w/ Sustainable Eco-systems and Economics in Ireland-

-Excellent site by the Revolt Collective of Ireland(not anarchy exactly)

If anyone would like to talk to me about this plz feel free to contact me on ICQ or via Email. I would love to start some networking about Anti-Globalisation

"51 of the top 100 economies of the world or multi-national global corporations(unvotable)"

"the other 49 r nations"
"General Motors has a higher Budget than Denmark"
"Ford has a higher Budget than S Africa"

"Information is Ammunition"
Choas Engine
Email: choas@netshop.ie
ICQ: 34896460

[This message has been edited by Chaos-Engine (edited 19-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Chaos-Engine (edited 19-07-2001).]

Mills · 19-07-2001 2:12pm

Yeah I watched it, and I thought it was very good and informative.

C B · 19-07-2001 3:43pm

While I know my opinion probably doesn't count as I am supportive of globalisation and I only saw the last 10 minutes of the programme I thought it was one of the worst pieces of tele-journalism I have ever seen.

I was completely one-sided. The blatant edited of the interview with the guy from the IMF is a candidate for world's greatest hoaxes. There was no attempt to show both sides of the arguement.

Lex_Diamonds · 19-07-2001 3:54pm

Anyone who believes there is going to be a NWO really needs to get out more. The very fact that they brought this up in the documentary shows it up for what it was, ratings seeking rubbish designed to appeal to the silly adolescents who go around trashing cities in order to bring about a better world. Excuse me while I sh|t myself laughing at these poor fools, many of which can be seen wondering around Trinity most days of the week.

[This message has been edited by Lex_Diamonds (edited 19-07-2001).]

adnans · 19-07-2001 4:03pm

poor C B (just to say i dont want to start a flame war or anything but...), you just dont know the situation of the world. do you? when was the last time you went to a war torn country or a third world country and seen direct effects of globalisation there? for someone as smart as you its really ignorant and stupid to flame everyone that tries to say something about the anti globalisation thats going on atm. get some sense and read a book. you too Lex :P how fair is it on a child from Iraq to grow up with all the sanctions happening just because US and UK dont like the guy thats in charge?

as for the program, ive seen a last few seconds of it and seen the USA millitary ad for globalisation. we have another old fashioned moon race on our hands and America is here to see it through. i got my popcorn.

adnans

DadaKopf · 19-07-2001 4:25pm

Those tele-journalists are sometimes like televangelists - cashing in voluntarily or offerd moolah to do some average, dramatised rendition of what's going on.

It's just like some series on soon called something like The Future Just Happened chronicling the .com's and the increasing speed with which things are taking place these days. That's all fair enough, it's having a huge impact on all of us but the need to dumb difficult issues down for television, presented to us by a mildly able, temporary celebrity 'expert' just adds to the vomit.

I mean jesus, there's more knowledgeable people out there who know it all but don't even claim to be so omniscient as the pulp philosopher you get on BBC2 of Channel 4.

I'm just skeptical of that whole thing.

adnans · 19-07-2001 4:32pm

Originally posted by DadaKopf:
I'm just skeptical of that whole thing.

you should be, you dont even have your avatar!! what the freakin hell is going on

and anyway, people these days watch more TV then they read books and if that is the only way to get information to them, im fine with that.

adnans

[This message has been edited by adnans (edited 19-07-2001).]

Shinji · 19-07-2001 5:04pm

for someone as smart as you its really ignorant and stupid to flame everyone that tries to say something about the anti globalisation thats going on atm

"I think the anti globalisation stuff is good, therefore anyone disagreeing with it is FLAMING!"

Yawn. I've seen this attitude in a few threads here now ("globalisation bad and if you disagree with me you need to die horribly for being so bloody stupid, mortal") and it's getting very tiresome indeed.

Chaos-Engine · 19-07-2001 7:42pm

Basically the Documentary was aimed at the uninformed, so for those that r currently involved it was no shock. As u didn't even see the FULL documentary u had little to understand from the the interviews at the End w/ IMF chiefs... I mean the IMF chiefs lied in the interviews and ignored Pure facts

(also not meaning to start a flame war)
**I wonder if u r one of those Idiots that think everyone is benefitting from the Celtic Tiger and those that arn't u just Bums... I wonder if u r u Daddy work in Sales, Marketing, Management, Finance or anything that pays for Capitalist Zeal...

Think before u Speck
U were not fully informed
let me inform u
Contact me(i won't try and turn u r anything, just answer Most Questions u through at me)

"Information is Ammunition"
Choas Engine
Email: choas@netshop.ie
ICQ: 34896460

[This message has been edited by Chaos-Engine (edited 19-07-2001).]

Shinji · 19-07-2001 8:39pm

**I wonder if u r one of those Idiots that think everyone is benefitting from the Celtic Tiger and those that arn't u just Bums... I wonder if u r u Daddy work in Sales, Marketing, Management, Finance or anything that pays for Capitalist Zeal...

"Your parents made something of their lives so your opinion is worthless."

I'm of the opinion that the vast majority of the anti-globalisation stuff is a crock, but my parents were both state employees working in the education sector, for what it's worth. Of course I suppose that since they were actually employed and scraped their way through college education, their opinion is worth less than a heroin addict who was "screwed by the system, maaaaan".

OConnor · 19-07-2001 9:39pm

anti globaslisation?
thats a crap idea
communism?
now there was a good idea, if only we could get it going over here...

WhiteWashMan · 20-07-2001 7:30am

Originally posted by adnans:
when was the last time you went to a war torn country or a third world country and seen direct effects of globalisation there?

so globalisation causes wars now as well?

adnans · 20-07-2001 8:03am

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan:
so globalisation causes wars now as well?

i didnt say that now, did i? im just saying that if a person went to a war torn country after the war has happened there is an obvious presence of large companies setting up bases, selliing off their products, while there are still issues going on after the war, and here we have banners from Coke saying everything is cool.

adnans

WhiteWashMan · 20-07-2001 8:14am

Originally posted by adnans:
i didnt say that now, did i? im just saying that if a person went to a war torn country after the war has happened there is an obvious presence of large companies setting up bases, selliing off their products, while there are still issues going on after the war, and here we have banners from Coke saying everything is cool.

adnans

well, im sure if companies look at the risk factor and then go ahead then they should be allowed to benefit.
why shouldnt they.
you should blame the government for allowing companies into countries, not the companies for taking advantage of a situation.
i mean if a shop does badly here and they end up with a closing down sale, do you refuse to go in and buy stuff cheap because they did badly, or do you go inwaving your credit card about and then smile all day because you got some great bargins?
its all about getting the best out of a situation. they just do it on a larger scale.
besides, if there were no huge multinational corperations, who would be the baddies in bond films these days?

Your Imps Demand Cable...

C B · 20-07-2001 8:19am

Adnans I have never been in a war-torn country but that is beside the point. Free trade is not the cause of war. People have been fighting for a very long time for a large number of reasons. Free trade is more likely to reduce global unrest than increase it. Similarly sanctions in Iraq have nothing to do with free trade (in fact they are a form of protectionism) and I do not support them. I have two degrees in economics and am currently doing a Ph. D. I didn't get here without reading a few books or addressing both sides an issue in objective manner, something which john pilger failed to do in his "propumentary".

Chaos Engine,
It is difficult to analysis whether everyone has benefited from "the Celtic Tiger" because we do not know what Ireland would have been like without our recent economic boom. It is undoubted that some people are no better off than they were in 1990 but i can't say that they would not be worse off given a different set off circumstances. So in short I do believe that most people have gained from our boom some more than others.

I am getting more than a little tired of insinuations regarding my personal circumstances and I feel that it's about time the mods dealt with this issue. In has come to the point where i feel I need to deal with the issue. I grew up in a family of six which was supported by one modest (state earned) income. My four eldest siblings were all forced to emigrate due to economic circumstances. I am happy that due to the boom they have been able to return. I don't consider my upbringing to be in anyway harsh. I believe that being the youngest in a large (and generous) family that I have been incredibly privilaged in that my older siblings were able to co-fund my education. I would not consider myself to be or have been in anyway poor and I am fully aware that there are billions of people worldwide and thousands in this country who endure circumstances which are unimaginably deprived. However the insinuation that I am some rich kid who knows nothing is untrue, unduly personal and reveals nothing more than your inability to logically put forward your own point of view.

adnans · 20-07-2001 8:57am

but of course there were wars before, and most of them revolved around one thing - money and power. and thats just what me and my friend Chaos here dont like. i dont want to argue with respected, smart and obviously intelligent people on boards *readies himself for a karma point* but i dont like companies or organisations or whatever in this world that strive to put money and power before the human life. it just simply isnt nice, but it seems that no one can do anything about it these days... and in my eyes, thats where the so called "protestors" come in. they gather in thousands in places where influential people in this world gather to discuss whatever is on the agenda, and if they fail to recognize that gathering, then i know that there is definitely something interesting on TV this weekend.

adnans

WhiteWashMan · 20-07-2001 10:47am

Originally posted by adnans:
but of course there were wars before, and most of them revolved around one thing - money and power

actually, apart from the catholic church which was always prepared for war if i meant gaining a quick buck, most wars have been about religion and territory.

Originally posted by adnans:
. i dont want to argue with respected, smart and obviously intelligent people on boards *readies himself for a karma point*

now you are being sycophantic, i should deduct karma points for sucking up

Originally posted by adnans:
but i dont like companies or organisations or whatever in this world that strive to put money and power before the human life.

hmm, i dont think this is the case.
its not good for business.....
maybe youve been watching too many films?

Originally posted by adnans:
. it just simply isnt nice, but it seems that no one can do anything about it these days... and in my eyes, thats where the so called "protestors" come in. they gather in thousands in places where influential people in this world gather to discuss whatever is on the agenda, and if they fail to recognize that gathering, then i know that there is definitely something interesting on TV this weekend.

rte 1 always has a good ol feel good movie on a saturday evening at about 6. the big movie. mighty ducks 1, 2 and 3 were on recently. quiet entertaining. beats the crap outta stanning around in the cold being ignored all day.

C B · 20-07-2001 12:12pm

Originally posted by amp:

1. The increasing gap between rich and poor.

Are the rich and the poor two mutually exclusive entities with barriers to movement between the two? If so then a widening gap is something to worry about. However if this is not the case and "the poor" can become "the rich" (and vice vearsa) then this is not such a problem. In most developed countries the rate of social movement is astonishingly large i.e. the position of people in society is often very different to the position of their parents. However greater equality of oppurtunity through universal education and healthcare would be welcomed.

In many developing countries social institutions are such that social mobility is rare and most remain in the "class" into which they were born. In these scenarios a widening income gap creates huge social tension and greater liberalisation of society is to be welcomed.

adnans · 20-07-2001 12:20pm

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan:
hmm, i dont think this is the case.
its not good for business.....
maybe youve been watching too many films?B]

if you are talking about the endless films with Steven Seagall then youre absolutely right.

as for being sycophantic, youre absolutely right, i even asked logic1 for karma which should be appearing right about........ now.

adnans

adnans · 20-07-2001 1:04pm

ok bonkey, well put down. now think about this one with an open mind please.

but i dont like companies or organizations or whatever in this world that strive to put money and power before the human life

where do you see the word war in that sentence?

You are aiming at the largest target, rather than the actual cause of the problem, which is lack of accountability, and the lack of true Free Trade, thanks to governmental interference (such as subsidies).

dont most governments or all of them support globalisation?

You (and Chaos Engine) have yet to present a single coherent argument as to what evil *globalization* is responsible for which did not exist without globalization, and which could not exist without it.

this is a debate? im just posting what i feel like posting, you take everything personally like im kicking you in the balls repeatedly.

to be short... they are protesting in Genoa for the G8 summit cause the G8 leaders are the majority shareholders of the world bank and IMF ... those two organization are up for Globalization ... third world countries such as Ethiopia and Sudan are suffering cause they have a massive debt to pay which is stopping their countries from developing... this leads to wars, famines you name it and wont stop until the debt is dropped

now think about it.

For the record, insulting me, my social circumstances, my lifestyle, my exposure to the world, or anything else you and your fellow "protestors" have been subjecting CB to in the name of discussion will neither change my argument nor in any way help to prove yours. So do us all a favour and dont waste time typing it in.

well excuse me, ill just put on my SONY MZR-70 MD player and all the worlds problems would go away. go out and smell a flower.

since this is a free discussion forum id hate to see it turn into a spitting of words forum. why dont we just pull out our brains and weigh them on the scales to see whos the big man? thats the last thing i need.

adnans

[This message has been edited by adnans (edited 20-07-2001).]

C B · 20-07-2001 1:09pm

Adnans,

Please tell me how free trade is responsible for war and famine in Africa? Do you really believe that Africa will become prosperous if debt is written off? Do you think that Africa was flourishing before globalisation?

Please respond with logical, clear arguements backed up with relevant studies and facts.

You should also note that the war in Ethopia is a territorial dispute with Eritrea and the war in Sudan is a civil war based on the religious divide between the Muslim North and Christian South.

Next you'll be saying that the IMF are responsible for the troubles in the north, the price of the pint and my sore toe.

[This message has been edited by C B (edited 20-07-2001).]

adnans · 20-07-2001 1:37pm

Originally posted by C B:
Please respond with logical, clear arguements backed up with relevant studies and facts.

question 1 and 2 are worth 25 marks each while question 3 is worth a whooping 50 marks. you have 3 hours to complete the exam. you miss school dont ya?

Next you'll be saying that the IMF are responsible for the troubles in the north, the price of the pint and my sore toe.

nah, the troubles in the north are caused by two nations fighting over the six counties, the price of the pint is just about right, and your toe is sore cause i stepped on it.

adnans

Shinji · 20-07-2001 1:39pm

So basically adnans can't argue his point properly and therefore has decided to pull out the "arguing properly is for nerds!" line.

Great. Lets just all call each other names and hit each other with sticks instead.

adnans · 20-07-2001 1:51pm

what i said in irc earlier on
[14:03] <adnans> take it you nerds on Humanities.

adnans

C B · 20-07-2001 1:56pm

So essentially you have no point or anything useful to add to the thread but take some perverse enjoyment from posted irrelevant comments.

adnans · 20-07-2001 2:37pm

<snip> ill keep my mouth shut. the above was a joke, but the whole thread isnt.

[This message has been edited by adnans (edited 20-07-2001).]

bonkey · 20-07-2001 2:47pm

Adnans...

Your last retort to my posts, on reflection, contained three points.

The first has taken my argument re war and globalisation (a connection you made, not me) and tried to offset it completely against something which I was never discussing. Bravo.

The second is a somewhat valid point in that governments do support globalisation. It does not show that globalisation is evil, and if anything, shows that you have mistargeted yoru enemy because it is poor governmental policy you should oppose, not the globalisation itself.

And the rest of your post is more inane drivel, trolling, and thinly veiled personal insults.

im just posting what i feel like posting, you take everything personally like im kicking you in the balls repeatedly

No I'm not taking it personally. The only thing I take personally is the amount of my time you have wasted.

I was under the mistaken impression that you actually cared about the topic and wanted to put your point across. Clearly I was wrong. I challenged your point of view. You descended into name calling. Allow me to retort in kind :

Actually no, I wont bother. You're not even worth that effort.

At this point, I would humbly suggest to our mods that they give ChaosEngine and adnans one more post (or 24 hours) to show they are capable of holding a discussion without insulting people. Failing that, lock the topic or discard it to trolls, because thats all thats happening here.

jc

p.s. Word to the wise....tacking "I dont want to start a flame war" on to something is not a license to be ignorant towards someone you dont know. This is a valuable lesson certain posters on this forum would do well to learn, IMHO.

Bard · 20-07-2001 2:50pm

Originally posted by Shinji:

Great. Lets just all call each other names and hit each other with sticks instead.

Seems SOMEONE thinks that's a good idea...

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2001/0720/breaking4.htm

Mucking fuppets.

Bard

Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[This message has been edited by Bard (edited 20-07-2001).]

WhiteWashMan · 20-07-2001 3:22pm

Originally posted by C B:
So essentially you have no point or anything useful to add to the thread but take some perverse enjoyment from posted irrelevant comments.

oopps!
ive been rumbled!

adnans · 20-07-2001 3:29pm

ive been posting here for a while but i havent seen a more unwelcome bunch of people then what ive seen here. fair enough not all agree with something i say and vice versa but to turn a simple information thread into a ruckus is beyond my immagination.

i do have to admit it that some of the drivel is my fault as well but the g8 summit is still going on and you have seen the result on the news. from this to this. this isnt just a bunch of lunatics going to Genoa and acting the ***** now. its a bit more then that, and to imply that all the people that have decided to attend are crazy(not anyone's words btw) is a bit far fetched.

ill discuss this subject with friends tonight whilst in the pub where i want be put down as soon as i open my mouth.

adnans

Shinji · 20-07-2001 3:34pm

Excuse me? You're being put down every time you open your mouth? Jesus suffering fúck, YOU'RE the one who refuses to enter into any kind of proper discussion because apparently that's "for nerds" and "like being at school".

I'm sure you'll have a great time talking about it in the pub with people who'll agree with every word you say. Oh, sorry, I mean people who won't "put you down every time you open your mouth".

adnans · 20-07-2001 3:40pm

thanks for proving my point shinji, id say jail would be nicer then living with you all.

adnans

Shinji · 20-07-2001 9:22pm

Sigh. Heat, kitchen, leaving, etc. Au Revoir.

R. Daneel Olivaw · 20-07-2001 10:49pm

by CB:
Next you'll be saying that the IMF are responsible for the troubles in the north, the price of the pint and my sore toe.

Good point - I was thinking today after watching the endless news reports on Sky Digital's multitude of news channels that perhaps if Ireland could get in on a new "G-200" group (Ireland is still pretty poor, no?) it could be hosted in Belfast. Now, those anti-capitalist ****ers could wipe that whole place out like Genoa today and all the "Troubles" would be over.

On a separate issue, I can't see what torching cars and smashing windows of people's houses and chucking fire extinguishers at armed police has to do with helping reduce third world debt. Any of you anti-globalisation people care to comment on that? Heck, how could anyone miss the anti-globalisation guy on ITN Digital who was carrying a PISTOL - I kid you not.

The peaceful protests seemed OK, usual stuff, I have no problem with that, it's a free world: if you treat others with the respect you think you deserve yourself.

But those guys dressed in black are basically like the football hooligans - funny, come to think of it the season over at the moment is it not? They were carrying flares, batons, all covered up like the riot police were (yay the Carbinieri!).

But those police are doing there job, which is assigned to them on basis of a majority of the population wanting them there. Those world leaders were voted by the majority to represent the countries.

I think, regarding the whole issue of New World Order (for those who don't think it's happening, do some reading on the Bilderberg group, and so on, and anyway just last week Putin was talking about a (quote) "multi-faceted new world order"). It's not a conspiracy; if the western companies and countries did not help at all, and the world was old-school Darwinian, Africa would have been wiped out years ago for annexation. Get real, one world government is a good thing. It may even be like the Star Trek "Federation" where money "is" abolished.....a noble vision.......and one that will only be accomplished by total unification.

R. Daneel Olivaw · 20-07-2001 10:59pm

Originally posted by C B:

In many developing countries social institutions are such that social mobility is rare and most remain in the "class" into which they were born. In these scenarios a widening income gap creates huge social tension and greater liberalisation of society is to be welcomed.

This is utter b-o-l-l-o-c-k-s (sorry admins!). Some of the most powerful men in the world, and most successful businesses are started and owned by people who maybe left school at 16, who dropped out after 1 year of college.

Examples? How about Bill Gates (left Harvard), there is a list that was published last year in Time or Newsweek or something, and basically if your good enough, no matter where you are from and what background you have, you will be "rich". Everyone can't be "rich". Some people doss their lives and become trash collectors for the council; it's all what you want to achieve.

This argument can not and NEVER will be about helping third world debt.

I think the whole anti-capitalist thing is really about jealousy. If all you ever achieve is mediocrity, sure you'll have a problem with people who worked hard to drive a Mercedes (as I saw on TV one was being torched).

Too scared to go out and achieve? To try? Or are you afraid that all you really are is average..........

Shinji · 20-07-2001 11:01pm

Er, he did specify that he's talking about developing countries, not the developed ("first") world...

Chaos-Engine · 20-07-2001 11:07pm

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan:
hmm, i dont think this is the case.
its not good for business.....
maybe youve been watching too many films?

ffs... Yes i know Globalisation is good for Business but at what cost? Any?

as for the Celtic Tiger i know
no. 1 yes we have Economic Growth
no. 2 some ppl have have recession due to it...

"Information is Ammunition"
Choas Engine
Email: choas@netshop.ie
ICQ: 34896460

WhiteWashMan · 20-07-2001 11:27pm

Originally posted by Chaos-Engine:

ffs... Yes i know Globalisation is good for Business but at what cost? Any?

taken out of context. read the full sentence.
its not good for business to be seen to put wealth and power ahead of profit and gain.
companies who do this do not do well.

Shinji · 20-07-2001 11:28pm

no. 2 some ppl have have recession due to it...

Oh go on then, I'll bite. Please explain this statement as I'm entirely certain that it's a pile of cack that you randomly spouted because it sounds good, like every other argument you've made to date.

C B · 20-07-2001 11:34pm

Did apologies go out of fashion at the same time as grammar and if so why wasn't I informed?

amp · 20-07-2001 11:47pm

Don't have time to read all the above as I am busy installing capitilist pig dog networks for Eddie Rockets.

But just to say that I find the following worrying:

1. The increasing gap between rich and poor.
2. The level of worldwide govermental corruption and the rising powers of corporations.
3. George W Bush (but not that much)
4. How incredibly unhygenic ER's HQ is! GAH!

Lunacy Abounds! GLminesweeper RO><ORS!
"Boxes for show, Baskets for a pro" - [FCA]SyxPak

bonkey · 20-07-2001 11:59pm

Let me get this straight...I'll see if I can understand your argument....

Originally posted by adnans:
but of course there were wars before, and most of them revolved around one thing - money and power.

1) War revolved around money and power long before globalisation came in...OK, with you....

2) When asked to defend your argument about war-torn countries and globalisation, you admit that globalisation does not cause wars, it cashes in on them.

Hmmm....business (non globalised) has been cashing in on war since the dawn of business. Weapons makers, scavangers, looters, you name it.

Then you turn around and say :

but i dont like companies or organisations or whatever in this world that strive to put money and power before the human life

Now, excuse me, but by your very own arguments, globalisation is not the cause of war. You could not possibly argue that they invented the notion of profiting from war.

So exactly how is all of this relevant to globalisation?

You have valid disagreements with the morality of modern business. However, globalisation (and the mega-corps) is not the cause, nor does it have a monopoly.

You are aiming at the largest target, rather than the actual cause of the problem, which is lack of accountability, and the lack of true Free Trade, thanks to governmental interference (such as subsidies).

You (and Chaos Engine) have yet to present a single coherent argument as to what evil *globalisation* is responsible for which did not exist without globalisation, and which could not exist without it.

For the record, insulting me, my social circumstances, my lifestyle, my exposure to the world, or anything else you and your fellow "protestors" have been subjecting CB to in the name of discussion will neither change my argument nor in any way help to prove yours. So do us all a favour and dont waste time typing it in.

jc

adnans · 21-07-2001 12:18am

whatever is going on?? its madness. and you cant dismiss as an argument that you can argue around.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/
http://www.oneworld.net/
http://news.excite.com/news/r/010720/09/news-group-leadall-dc
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/genoa010720_protests.html
http://www.doit.it/Tourism/genova/genoa.html

whatever your into this is just madness!!!

"...the leaders are in the luxury liner, but around them is an extrodinary place, like martial law, walled like ghettos, beyond that small walls, you just cant carry on like that..."

one more please...

newsanchor: "how ratled are the leaders?"
reporter: "oh, they are rattled alright..."

and so on... its freaky and you know it. im in dnc right now and am gonna play some cs to let off steam and to practice for the CPL. weird.

adnans

Von · 21-07-2001 3:03am

Why don't you all shut up and watch Big Brother?

C B · 21-07-2001 10:11am

Originally posted by R. Daneel Olivaw:

Examples? How about Bill Gates (left Harvard), there is a list that was published last year in Time or Newsweek or something, and basically if your good enough, no matter where you are from and what background you have, you will be "rich". Everyone can't be "rich". Some people doss their lives and become trash collectors for the council; it's all what you want to achieve.

It think that is exactly what I said. In the developed world the rich are often the last generations poor. However the poor are rarely the last generations rich and no such mobility is possible in caste ridden Aisan and African societies. try reading before replying!!

R. Daneel Olivaw · 22-07-2001 2:32am

I did read *all* the posts, but you continually fail to see the big picture.

If all was left to nature and evolution, those people who are being fought about would have dies out long ago.

But it's not, the whole purpose of the summits is to increase international cooperation on issues such as HIV in the third world. If those country's governments choose to go against this and do the cash-crops thing, then surely the west should intervene?

But those demonstrators are all blatantly against this. They would rather violence and bloodshed as an inevitable means to an end than sit down at at table and dicuss issues with who are the ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES by the MAJORITY of the populations.

Anti-Globalisation and John Pilger

Comments