The right and the wrong of it...

bonkey

Following some interesting discussions on other fora, I have a question to pose...but before I do, let me maybe set some background...

Humans often believe that we are the only lifeform on this planet to work at a level higher than pure survival. This is blatantly untrue.

Chimps and even certain birds use simple tools. Whales and dolphins are very sociable creatures. Many species have primitive forms of speech (or perhaps not so primitive, only we dont know).

So, assuming that these traits are evolutionary in nature, and that we have evolved along those lines further than any other species....here's the question....

Where did Right and Wrong come from? And what are they? Are they simple survival traits memes which help us form a better society (and which have evolved from there), or is there something more complex there?

I'm curious....and I'd welcome any thoughts.

jc

DadaKopf

Hehe, you've been reading your Richard Dawkins .

I'd assume that concepts of 'right' and 'wrong' are very arbitrary and are merely human inventions. Historically, there's little to concretly prove the existence and certitude of morals and my opinion is that most of them have been invented either by those in power of those vying for power. In moral judgements, someone has to be winning and losing.

It's all just a matter of expediency and pragmatism even if it doesn't seem like it.

Morals are not written in stone - but survival is.

bonkey

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DadaKopf:
Hehe, you've been reading your Richard Dawkins .</font>

Who?

/me goes to have a look on the web.....


jc

scutchy

>>Humans often believe that we are the only lifeform on this planet to work at a level higher than pure survival. This is blatantly untrue.

I agree that we have an exhaulted and undeserved view of ourselves.

>>Chimps and even certain birds use simple tools.

Termites keep other insects for their secretions and build skyscrapers, my cat can open doors from both sides, and cats can be trained to use toilets.

Gorillas display knowledge of herbology - eating certain plants to kill parasites.

>>Whales and dolphins are very sociable creatures.

Humans and dolphins are the only species that have sex for fun, which is surprising, seeing as pig's orgasms last a half hour

(Note: I read this. Any jokes not appreciated )

>>Many species have primitive forms of speech (or perhaps not so primitive, only we dont know).

Their speech serves their purpose - if my cat talks to me, it can tell me when it wants to hunt, when it wants to eat, when it wants doors opened - lots of stuff.

>>we have evolved along those lines further than any other species

I'd disagree with 'further' - just a different direction. Just a little thing.

>>Where did Right and Wrong come from? And what are they?

I think this goes back to Plato's forms - he hypothesised for instance that if chairs exist, they posessed characteristics of an ideal chair - because we can see evidence of some things that are partially right and partially wrong, there must exist absolute Right and absolute Wrong.

Think of them as standards by which actions are judged.

>>Are they simple survival traits memes which help us form a better society

I don't see how they'd be necessary - humans have always acted according to their individual ethical code - for instance, Hitler always strove to do what was right. It was his interpretation of it.

>>...is there something more complex there?

The existence of absolute good is often used in the God Exists debate, many of the proponents saying that morality is impossible without the existence of absolute good, which they see as God.

>>I'm curious....and I'd welcome any thoughts.

Ramblings will have to do

_CreeD_

Right and wrong are functions of our evolution as pack animals.
Our perception of right and wrong is created by the need to be part of the group tempered by the need to take everyone else in the direction we feel society needs to be going.

The factors that make up the most basic of our moral standards are incredibly complex, they're not so much principals as a web of different instincts in which the ideal itself is merely the most identifiable focus.

My $.02 anyway...