Consensual Age of Sexual Intercourse

Lucy_la_morte

I was sitting on my pearly throne pondering the days when.. I considered the minimum age for Consensual Sexual Intercourse being 16 and what people thought of it. Is it too low? Too high? How does it tie in with the minimum age for the viewing of some Pornography being 18 to 21?

I think the age for consensual sex should be lowered, as a girl such as myself can easily make my own choice one what age I feel is just to engage in sexual actions.

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Miaow.

Lucy la morte.

Cake Fiend

Maybe you know, or think you know, but I'm sure a lot of other people your age wouldn't be ready for such a step, whether they felt ready or not. I don't doubt that a lot of young people feel pressured into sex, then regret it afterward - the law is there for the protection of people like this. You might say that people will do what they want, regardless of the law, but there are still people to whom this law would make a difference in their decision.

(Also, the law isn't as clean-cut as that, the legal age of either person varies under certain conditions, don't know the exact conditions etc)

It's hard to have a universal law for anything; people differ so much that any law might be appropriate for one person, but not for another, etc - different strokes for different folks and all that (no pun intended )

I'll try to come back to this and make more sense when I'm less tired...

PHB

Its more a law to stop sex between
eg. a 14 year old and a 30 year old.
Obviously underage sex isnt the best thing(?) but the laws arent in place to stop that, there in place to stop the above.

cueball

Well not really an expert on the topic, but the legal age seems fine as it is, strange your allowed to experence sex at 16 but not be allowed to watch it though =/ but like the law can do anything about either of those issues, theres no way of preventing it only mabe help out with proper sex education, youd be surprised how thick people can be on the topic. "If its my first time can i get pregnant?" Or simalar stupid questions. *Sighs at amount of teenage mothers*

[This message has been edited by cueball (edited 14-06-2001).]

Belisarius

Being up for all of 18 minutes , of course the legal age of sexual consent has been at the fore of my mind , but 16 is fair , and as PHB stated more fore protection against molestation . But hey its not as if anyone under the age of consent would really care if it was against the law , so 16 it is , and 16 it stays
Bel.

*Insert ignored message for teenage abstenance here*

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Shrewgar!

Puck

I thought the minimum age for concensual sexual intercourse was 17 for both hetrosexual and homosexual people in Ireland?

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John (yes THE John!)
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."

OSiriS

Nope, it used to be that the minimum agae to purchase contraceptives was 17 (which was rather ludicrous when the consentual age for having sex was 16) but afaik this has since been remedied

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http://clans.quake.ie/osiris
Fragnet

Xterminator

I think that it probably should be changed to something like this.
It is illegal to have ( consentual)intercourse with someone under the age of 16, unless the older party is less than 2 calander years older than the younger party.

This would de-criminalise consentual sex among peers, while keeping the protection from molestation for the young person.

Puck

Is there a site you can go to in order to look up these things so everyone knows exactly what the law says on a subject?

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John (yes THE John!)
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."

cueball

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by OSiriS:
the minimum agae to purchase contraceptives was 17 (which was rather ludicrous when the consentual age for having sex was 16)
</font>

LMAO I see the government are keen on safe sex!

adnans

some people mature more quickly then others, its all about how people feel if they are ready for consensual sex. thats it.

the pornography bit though, its only there to protect younger people from having access to it. I mean if a 16 year old is allowed to buy pornography that means he/she can give it to his/her friends who are much younger then the person who bought it. and in the end, who knows where it might end up. your 7 year old brother/sister??

18 is the age considered by many to be the age of some reason and logic (for most people that is) and they wouldnt freely give away excplicit material that you can get your hands on these days. plus its the law

adnans

[This message has been edited by adnans (edited 14-06-2001).]

Shiminay

I think 16 is fair enough - as has been pointed out, some people will be ready for the big step before 16 and some after, but it's a fairly safe number I think.

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All the best!
Dav
@B^)
So Bob Hoskins was about to roll a spliff when in walks Dana with her 3 foot Bong
[honey i] violated [the kids]
Tribes 2 Goodness
The Dawn of the Beefy King approaches...

Magwitch

16 I think is a fair age. The state could not go out and arrest teenage couples that are obeying or exploring urges. Those between 16 and 18 are on a provisional licence so to speak.

An element of social stigma (for now) protects 16 years old from having sexual relations with older people people to some extent.

But given firstly the consequences that a 16 year old girl would suffer through pregnancy and secondly that many 16 year olds are educated by a generation of people that keep them in the dark about sex a law to forbid sexual relations with older people would perhaps be an idea. It has been touted in UK during the debate about the lowering of the age of consent for homosexual sex that such a law be imposed to this effect(though I am unclaer as to whether they actually did it). A law like this would protect both sexes from preditory behavior allowing natural and paced denelopment of the young individual, and given the increase in weirdos I think it should be brought in. If I were 35 or 40 I would go nuts if a bloke I played golf with of a simular age was going out with my teenage sone or daughter, denyng them the joy of discovery for the sake of a older persons gratification.

Hobbes

Maybe I'm getting confused but 16 is the age that your partner can have sex with you without your parents pressing charges of statutory rape.

It doesn't mean you can have sex at that age?

I think 16 is pushing the limit, if I had a choice I'd up it to 18.

Being a kid isn't fair, but you grow out of it.

Easier way to look at it Lucy is, if you have a child who was 12 or 14 would you say to her it's ok to have sex with older men?

Dont be at yourself

I don't know if it wise to lower it. Generally, the quality of sex ed. in this country varies greatly and as cueball said you get people who don't have a clue about certain things.

Then there's the whole age thingy. I see nothing wrong with a 14 year old and a 16 year old having sex with each other, but I do see a problem with a 30 year old and a 14 year old having sex with each other. Xterminator made a good suggestion on how to deal with this though.

The thing is, the gards aren't going to go around knocking on teenager's doors arresting people for underage sex. The law hasn't really deterred people from it anyway. If people feel they're ready, they'll go and do it.

As for the pornography issue, its ridiculous. Firstly, teenagers are going to look at it regardless. It also serves a purpose in sexual exploration. The vast majority of women I know don't see it as offencive. Maybe older generations do, I haven't asked.

Between the ****-poor sexual education and restrictions on pornography you'd have to wonder whether the goverment just wants teenagers to bungle through adolesence and not know a thing.

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The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.

Ri-ra

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Puck:
I thought the minimum age for concensual sexual intercourse was 17 for both hetrosexual and homosexual people in Ireland?

</font>

I read this somewhere (I think a site having to do with the Bunreacht), and the age of consent was 17 for heteros and homos.

Executive Steve

in other words...

a woman says "no", and she means it; fair enough.

a womansays she's over sixteen and its your call.

and they call this justice.

seriously though, mate of mine drinks in fibbers *shudder* and he goes in one night, meets this honey, lovely girl they get on like a house on fire [am i the only one who finds that experssion odd?] they have a few drinks, etc. etc. they go out to the beer garden and do what mummys and daddys do in one of the darker corners of that classy night spot.

he found out next time he saw her that she was [barely]13. barely as it in had been her thirteenth birthday not too long ago...

he sent her a card a while ago to wish her luck in her junior cert...

androphobic

Isn't 17 the legal age for sex?

If you have sex when you're 16 your parents can't get the guy/girl for statutory rape if you say it was consensual(there's a technical term for this, can't remember it).

But 17 is the legal age for sex. 16 in Britain.

I reckon it's fair enough.. there would be uproar if it was made 14 or something.

Victor

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by [cm]tyranny:
a woman says she's over sixteen and its your call.</font>

Oooo no. You have to exercise your judgement - I think (and so does the law) it's a bad excuse if you think a 13 year old is 16-17.

By the way the age of consent appear to be 17, not 16.

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Changing call sign to SIERRA PAPA OSCAR OSCAR FOXTROT.

Hobbes

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Victor:
By the way the age of consent appear to be 17, not 16.</font>

As already mentioned, 16 and under is the age at which the parents can get your butt thrown into Jail regardless if the person consented or not.

Despite what androphobic says, there is no get out of jail card. You might get slapped around by her parents if they caught you's both at it and at that age, but they can just as easy call the cops on you.

Magwitch

As I have already siad, 16+ is an age of experience. But in the modern world there has to be an acceptance that there has to be room for a young pesonn to grow and devolop, without being preyed upon by letch-hawks.

If 17 is the age then good enough. Any guy over 25 would agree (if he has any brains) that girls having children at below eighteen is a waste of a life. men who prey on younger girls (and thier are a few) have underveloped minds or are perverts (same thing?), either way their are alot of them about. By the same stroke boys of under eighteen should not be introduced to the codes and norms of a developed homosexual society until they are ready to make a choice, rather then acept it as the norm.

Puck

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Victor:
By the way the age of consent appear to be 17, not 16.


</font>

Yeah! I was right! Ha!

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John (yes THE John!)
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."

Kix

I'm pretty happy with it where it is. I'm almost twice as old as necessary anyhow

It's natural when you're younger to think that you already know everything there is to know and that you can handle anything that comes your way. We all felt like that. It's also just as true that we all grow up to know that that wasn't true.

Sex is powerful stuff emotionally and shouldn't be trifled with.

Just my twopence.

Lucy_la_morte

Wow, I made a topic on the humanities board that was not only informative but non-flamed.. Quite amazing.

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Miaow.

Lucy la morte.

Deathstrike

I think its fine as it is hhowever as one user said different people mature at different ages.

Lucy_la_morte

Correct Yos,

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Miaow.

Lucy la morte.

Victor

OK, I'm not an expert on this, but see below. These are merely brief extracts.

I also understand the difference between felony and misdemeanour has beeen abolished.

(I'm also claiming the disclaimer)

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OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

IRISH STATUTE BOOK (Acts & SI's) 1922-1998

http://193.120.124.98/front.html

CRIMINAL LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 1935

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Disclaimer and waiver of liability, by you, the user, to which use of this web site is subject.

Whilst every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the information\material contained on the web site, the State and Attorney General, its servants or agents assume no responsibility for and give no guarantees, undertakings or warranties concerning the accuracy, completeness or up to date nature of the information provided on the web site and does not accept any liability whatsoever arising from any errors or omissions.

[/b] Please read the above disclaimer before proceeding [/b]

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Section 1 Defilement of girl under fifteen years of age.

1.—(1) Any person who unlawfully and carnally knows any girl under the age of fifteen years shall be guilty of a felony, and shall be liable on conviction thereof to penal servitude for life or for any term not less than three years or to imprisonment for any term not exceeding two years.

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Section 2 Defilement of girl between fifteen and seventeen years of age.

2.—(1) Any person who unlawfully and carnally knows any girl who is of or over the age of fifteen years and under the age of seventeen years shall be guilty of a misdemeanour and shall be liable, in the case of a first conviction of such misdemeanour, to penal servitude f or any term not exceeding five years nor less than three years or to imprisonment for any term not exceeding two years or, in the case of a second or any subsequent conviction of such misdemeanour, to any term of penal servitude not exceeding ten years nor less than three years or to imprisonment for any term not exceeding two years.

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Section 14 Defence of consent by person under fifteen years of age.

Section 14.—It shall not be a defence to a charge of indecent assault upon a person under the age of fifteen years to prove that such person consented to the act alleged to constitute such indecent assault.

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Changing call sign to SIERRA PAPA OSCAR OSCAR FOXTROT.

Victor

S.I. No. 177/1994: TELECOMMUNICATIONS SCHEME, 1994.

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28. (1) No telecommunications service shall be used:—

( a ) for the transmission of any message or other matter which is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene, or menacing character whether addressed to a telecommunications exchange operator or any other person;

I think this makes phone sex with your, eh, 'significant other' illegal.

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Changing call sign to SIERRA PAPA OSCAR OSCAR FOXTROT.

Victor

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lucy_la_morte:
How does it tie in with the minimum age for the viewing of some Pornography being 18 to 21?</font>

Not sure if there is any such provision for being 21 (except your parents / guardians). 18's certs film often have little more sex than 15PG. It is usually other types of unacceptable behavior e.g. hard drugs, graphic violence, prostitution and the liek that will get an 18's cert.

With publications i don't think there is an 'age' system in use - it's either banned or not banned.

Please note that the certification of films has been revised.

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Changing call sign to SIERRA PAPA OSCAR OSCAR FOXTROT.

po0k

But there have been a load of films that were banned ages ago and the standards have now changed (slipped, laxed ?) but these films remain banned. I know its a bit off topic but there should be more then one film censor in Ireland. I'm taking it that there is only one actual person who does the censoring here because I read something in a newspaper recently about it and it mentioned only one man and stated that he was the film censor, though it would have helped greatly had the 'the' in question been in italics, as in "the censor"

As for sex-education in Ireland, it is woefully inadequate. It is not presented in a socially acceptable (by acceptable I mean acceptable by the persons who are to be 'educated')manner. If you wish to actually get the people who will need this to listen and learn it must not be presented in some up-tight politically correct fashion. More is expected. The female menstrual cycle is complex and takes a bloody age to get the dates recorded and accurate. You can't just say 'Oh, sure its only 28 days anyways, it'll be a week before my next period, so I can't get pregnant'. Bull. There is a space of a few days where it is impossible for the woman to get pregnant, unless the man has some super-resilient sperm or something. It takes a bit of dedicated recording and morning examination of the mucus lining of the cervix for about 6-8 months, but is 100% effective and free. Not perhaps convenient, nor punctual as the woman's libido will have greatly decreased from its ovulating 'high', but at least she won't have to insert 'Tab-A' into 'Slot-B'.
I learnt the finer, more fuzzy points of this about a month ago. It was rushed past us in our C.D. class in school before the Leaving Cert. in a last ditch attempt to stop the 'youth' living 'in sin'.

Please excuse the abundant use of inverted commas, but i feel they can add to the intentions of teh post by highlighting what I wish to convey


Just going to try some smilies to lighten up this otherwise dull post. They kinda reminded me of sperm. I don't know why.

Oh and this one:

John

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No-one ever suspects the Duck
He who must die, must die in the dark even though he sells candles

po0k

Oh and Puck, Don't even start........

yossarin

no flames: its a topic close to everyones heart

ps lucy : "I was sitting on my pearly throne..." - you were going to the Lav ?
its where i do most of my thinking

[This message has been edited by yossarin (edited 16-06-2001).]

Raife

Under the age of 16, now thats just down right nasty!

I'm eighteen at the end of this month and knowing that theres some 15 or 14 year old having sex somewhere and then most likely getting pregnant makes me sick to my stumick.

This is due to me seeing girls of the same age pregnant.

Are you under 16 Lucy?

Ltr!!
Raife!!

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Raife:
Under the age of 16, now thats just down right nasty</font>

Well u see u have to look at it this way.How are u ment to stop this. There is more and more under-age sex happing every day in Ireland. Its like under-age drinking u are still going to have the person that will go into the offo for the kids It happens. What I would really like to no when has there been a case for 2 kids in court for under-age sex I can hardly see the gaurds followin some little boy home after gettin a packet of condoms in the shop and
bustin in to the house and takin the to of them to court like what is the need for this Law.

azezil

i know this guy who believes if they're old enough to bleed, they're old enough to breed LOL total scumbag, oh and he says he also shág anything with a pulse... which makes me very nervous!!! LMAO

not me however, i think it shouldn't be anything less than 17 / possibly even 18yr's!

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"just because you're not paraniod, doesn't mean they're not after you!"

_CreeD_

My view be this....as was mentioned just above the law isn't going to stop someone having sex. It will stop them being able to seek advice, contraception and support when they need it. Also many kids will do it to seem cool. So a mandatory age of consent is self defeating. (Also as you can see consentual sex laws in Ireland are all aimed at 'protecting' women only. I remember a case about 10 years ago of 2 guys (18 and 20) who had sex with a 14 year old girl. She admitted in court that she had told them she was 18, had dressed and looked the part, had run off down the beach after they were out stripping off and literally begging them to have sex with her. They got 1.5 years in prison each, she walked away.....)

That 2 year difference law is already active in Sweden as far as I know and is the only sex-law that makes any sense. It provides protection for younger people being manipulated into it by older freaks of nature, without dictating to someone just exactly when they will be old enough to decide what they can and can't do with their own body.
I mean, when is anyone 'ready' for sex? Really? Obviously you wouldn't have done it before so how can you say you are really ready? You simply do it when it feels right for you - whether that's because you're with someone you really love, or you're just aching to experience it.

Now, to make it clear I could say that instinctually I don't think anyone under the age of 16 should have sex. BUT that's my preference which is a predictably easy one to have when I don't have to worry about the limitation myself.

Sex I think is one of the greatest and yet the most stupid things on the planet. It's wonderful, and unique, but at the same time so simple that the amount of pressure, stress and soulsearching we let it cause is amazing.


[This message has been edited by _CreeD_ (edited 18-06-2001).]

Lucy_la_morte

Agreed.. CreeD.. I really didn't want that to rhyme.

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Miaow.

Lucy la morte.

Puck

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by [FCA]SyxPak:
Oh and Puck, Don't even start........</font>

Start what? Sorry if you got the impression I was trying to start an argument or something but I wasn't.

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John (yes THE John!)
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."

[This message has been edited by Puck (edited 18-06-2001).]

Xterminator

Just a point that has not really been picked up on.

One of the main weaknesses of the curent legislation is that if say a 15 yr old partner (of either gender) sleeps with a 14 yr old partner, There wont/can't be a prosecution.
But if the relationship continues for a year the 15yr old becomes 16 , and becomes a criminal,a statutory rapist and a pedophile? Thats mad!

And also if 1 partner lies/conceals their age, then the other partner if under the law is a rapist etc!!! I dont know bout you but if a person can trick his or her way into a bar/ disco etc. where the expected age is often 18, then after a few beers, my or your perception/judgement would be at a stage where you would take this persons word. Can consentual sex where one party was deceived be termed 'rape'? If it can thats pretty scary.

i think regardless of what age you think people shold be having sex at, you have to be careful about crimininalising the whole thing.

Hobbes

Ask to see thier birth cert?

I suppose you could ask to see thier doctors examination to make sure they are nice and clean too.

po0k

Sarcasm. Something about lowest form of wit rings a bell but I caaaaan't quite place it.......
/me is twirling finger in teh air as if to press a large, red, squishy button...

The laws are quite complex, and should be more flexible. They are also incredibly biased towards women.

Oh and Puck:
quote:

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Originally posted by [FCA]SyxPak:
Oh and Puck, Don't even start........

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Start what? Sorry if you got the impression I was trying to start an argument or something but I wasn't.

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John (yes THE John!)

The...ahem...THE part.
I am not making an issue out of this,merely trying to get a rise out of you for my own selfish needs. But to arrogantly assume you are the sole and therefore THE John on the boards is balls.
This might provoke a small voluntary census of all the Johns and wanna-be Johns on the Boards. Or maybe not.

Steven

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Sarcasm. Something about lowest form of wit rings a bell but I caaaaan't quite place it.......</font>

Oh lol, I love irony

po0k