"Bitch, where's the guns?"

Redleslie2

From The Economist.

In Ramadi, the capital of central Anbar province, where 17 suicide-bombs struck American forces during the month-long Muslim fast of Ramadan in the autumn, the marines are jumpy. Sometimes, they say, they fire on vehicles encroaching within 30 metres, sometimes they fire at 20 metres: “If anyone gets too close to us we ****ing waste them,” says a bullish lieutenant. “It's kind of a shame, because it means we've killed a lot of innocent people.”

And not all of them were in cars. Since discovering that roadside bombs, known as Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs), can be triggered by mobile telephones, marines say they shoot at any Iraqi they see handling a phone near a bomb-blast. Bystanders to an insurgent ambush are also liable to be killed. Sometimes, the marines say they hide near the body of a dead insurgent and kill whoever comes to collect it. According to the marine lieutenant: “It gets to a point where you can't wait to see guys with guns, so you start shooting everybody...It gets to a point where you don't mind the bad stuff you do.”

Since September 1st, when the battalion's 800 men were deployed to Ramadi, they have killed 400-500 people, according to one of their senior officers. A more precise estimate is impossible, because the marines rarely see their attackers. When fired upon, they retaliate by blitzing whichever buildings they think the fire is coming from: charred shells now line Ramadi's main streets. “Sometimes it works in the insurgents' favour,” admits Rick Sims, a chief warrant officer. “Because by the time we've shot up the neighbourhood, then the guys have torn up a few houses, they're four blocks away, and we just end up pissing off the locals.”

What is it they're trying to do over there exactly? If they could take a minute or two off from rabidly slagging SF/IRA, maybe one or two folks from the pro-war side can answer that. At this stage I don't know why the US doesn't just go in for large scale Balkans style exterminations and mass detentions, sort of like what they did in Fallujah but with a little more ooomph.

Death in Fallujah rising, doctors say.

stagolee

your "the economist" link just points to the same story as the other one about the death toll rising in iraq, you should fix it so it goes to where you got that quote from

Redleslie2

stagolee wrote:

your "the economist" link just points to the same story as the other one about the death toll rising in iraq, you should fix it so it goes to where you got that quote from

Lies. :mad:

stagolee

ah, it works now, cheers

Hobbes

Sadly the problem is the US army are trained to kill. Not to be a police force (UK troops get policing training as well).

This story is nothing new either, early last year they had footage on sky news of US troops machine gunning a car behind them because it wouldn't stay back (it was clearly trying to overtake).

chewy

ther between a rock and hard place we shoud support our troops and the pleasure in killing...

Redleslie2

Hobbes wrote:

Sadly the problem is the US army are trained to kill. Not to be a police force (UK troops get policing training as well).

This story is nothing new either, early last year they had footage on sky news of US troops machine gunning a car behind them because it wouldn't stay back (it was clearly trying to overtake).

I know yeah but we're generally not informed how widespread this is. No interest from the pro-war people surprisingly. Maybe if I mention sinn fein that'll attract them.


Sinn fein evil copkilling baby bombers in Iraq?

sovtek

Redleslie2 wrote:

I know yeah but we're generally not informed how widespread this is. No interest from the pro-war people surprisingly. Maybe if I mention sinn fein that'll attract them.


Sinn fein evil copkilling baby bombers in Iraq?

Yes I can't wait for the next Sinn Fein/IRA slugfest

Oh wait!

I guess if you kill enough of the people opposing your occupation then eventually you will truly have democracy.

Redleslie2

sovtek wrote:

I guess if you kill enough of the people opposing your occupation then eventually you will truly have democracy.

How long will it take to liquidate the insurgents at this rate.

"I think the resistance is bigger than the US military in Iraq. I think the resistance is more than 200,000 people," Iraqi intelligence service director General Mohamed Abdullah Shahwani said in an interview ahead of the January 30 elections.

Shahwani said the number includes at least 40,000 hardcore fighters but rises to more than 200,000 members counting part-time fighters and volunteers who provide rebels everything from intelligence and logistics to shelter.

It appears that there's nothing but bad news coming from the front. Nine American Troops Killed in Iraq.

I'm sick of it. Come on pro-war armchair generals, bring me a list of today's victories.

sovtek

Redleslie2 wrote:

How long will it take to liquidate the insurgents at this rate.

It's not very effective...maybe bring back the mass graves or gas chambers.

I'm sick of it. Come on pro-war armchair generals, bring me a list of today's victories.

[DEVILS ADVOCATE]

Well they are passing out ALOT of soccer balls over there [/DEVILS ADVOCATE]

Moriarty

sovtek wrote:

It's not very effective...maybe bring back the mass graves or gas chambers.



[DEVILS ADVOCATE]

Well they are passing out ALOT of soccer balls over there [/DEVILS ADVOCATE]

(alot isn't a word)

sovtek

Moriarty wrote:

(alot isn't a word)

Three hundred million people disagree...

Moriarty

More than a hundred million elected Bush.

What's your point?

sovtek

Moriarty wrote:

More than a hundred million elected Bush.

What's your point?

Actually it was only 60 million but...touche'

Redleslie2

Iraqi CP Mourns Trade Unionist Leader Assassinated by Anti-People Terrorists

Now that's more like it.

Redleslie2

U.S. Considers Elite Hit-Squads for Iraq -Report

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The Pentagon (news - web sites) is debating whether to set up elite hit-squads to target leaders of the Iraq (news - web sites) insurgency in a new strategy based on tactics used against leftist guerrillas in Central America 20 years ago, Newsweek magazine reported on Saturday.

One proposal would send U.S. Special Forces teams to advise, support and possibly train Iraqi squads of hand-picked Kurdish Peshmerga fighters and Shiite militiamen to target Sunni insurgents and their sympathizers, Newsweek said, citing military insiders familiar with the discussions.

The squads may operate across the border in Syria, Newsweek said on its web site, but added it was unclear whether they would assassinate leaders or be involved in "snatch" operations.

The magazine said the plan is being called "the Salvador option" after strategy instigated during the Reagan administration's battle against the leftist guerrilla insurgency in El Salvador (news - web sites) in the early 1980s.

Then, faced with a losing war against Salvadoran rebels, the U.S. government funded or supported "nationalist" forces to hunt down and kill rebel leaders and sympathizers.

"What everyone agrees is that we can't just go on as we are," one unidentified senior military officer told Newsweek. "We have to find a way to take the offensive against the insurgents. Right now, we are playing defense. And we are losing."

Newsweek said Pentagon sources emphasize there has been no decision to launch the special squads. The Defense Department had no comment on the Newsweek article.

Amid concern over a bold and growing insurgency, the Pentagon is sending retired Gen. Gary Luck to Iraq next week to review overall military operations.

Now that's even more like it. Send in freelance death/rape/torture squads.

sovtek

Redleslie2 wrote:

U.S. Considers Elite Hit-Squads for Iraq -Report


Now that's even more like it. Send in freelance death/rape/torture squads.

Nevermind the ****storm it's gonna kick up between Kurds and Sunni's?Shias when the Kurds start assassinating their guys. It could also backfire (because that's never happened before) that these freelance Kurds start eventually helping out their buddies in Turkey.

ionapaul

It is clear that the average American soldier cares little for the average, man-on-the-street Iraqi. Not certain if anything can be done to change this, unfortunately. The cure seems worse than the disease at the moment, particularly to those un-molested by Saddam.
Still am amazed that enough of the American voting public overlooked the Bush administration's horrible series of mistakes with regard to the Iraq war and the post-Saddam situation to re-elect them.

vorbis

i'd wait for the elections before writing off Iraq entirely. The majority of people in Iraq seem to be in favour of elections so hopefully the situaiton will begin to normailise with a properly elected government.

sovtek

vorbis wrote:

i'd wait for the elections before writing off Iraq entirely. The majority of people in Iraq seem to be in favour of elections so hopefully the situaiton will begin to normailise with a properly elected government.

I guess "properly elected" now means "elect whom we choose", which is exactly what Iraq is getting. It's also a pipe dream to believe that the resistance is gonna stop before the occupying force leaves.

Redleslie2

Unknown Militant Group Declares War on Extremists in Iraq

Baghdad. An unknown militant group Saraya Iraqna has declared war on extremists acting on the territory of Iraq, reported RIA Novosti citing an article published in the Iraqi newspaper Al Ittihad. The first official message of the group says it aims at “a relentless fight against all kinds of terrorists and Wahabits in the country”.

“Our activity will not be selective. It is directed toward all terrorist organizations on the territory of Iraq, no matter what their religion or ethnic origin is”, says the message. The group promises rewards of USD 3,000 to USD 50,000 to people cooperating in the fight against terrorism.

Nothing to do with the CIA or anything.

Moriarty

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't feel confident saying it was right now anyway.

Redleslie2

I noticed the article on www.icasualties.org It might be interesting to see if anything happens to back it up. It is a bit odd that during the US election campaign Cheney was citing El Salvador as the model Iraq should follow, then there was that story about the pentagon considering El Salvador style hit squads, now there's this if it's for real.

Hobbes

The group promises rewards of USD 3,000 to USD 50,000 to people cooperating in the fight against terrorism.

Like that really worked in Afganistan. The warlords just rounded up strangers on the street and got the reward for handing over *taliban*