Netiquette

DeVore · 17-05-2001 12:25am #1

Oh boy, now I'm showing my age...

There used to be a thing called netiquette which was driven home to me when I first started using the net (carrier pigeons carried the packets).

Some of the rules were,
1. Dont nitpick grammar and spelling if the post is understandable and readable. Its the sign of a small mind.

2. Dont flame people with abuse. If you feel you must flame someone, argue the point and be creative about the way you do it.
This is the main reason behind our "censoring" of four letter words on these boards. Its not that we are offended by them (anyone who knows me will vouch for my colourful language on occasions) but it at least forces people to think about using something a little more witty.

There were a lot more but these two cover some of the points that have been raised in other posts here. I wonder what happened to Netiquette (apart from AOL

)

DeV.

harVee · 17-05-2001 2:13am

I reckon the first time I used the net was in 95.
I know for a fact that my grammer and spelling has got worse in the 6 years since. If that's the case in general, I can see how ppl are getting a little annoyed.

A few years ago, things like spellcheckers weren't around and a user couldn't reposition the cursor by simply moving the mouse. In fact it was hard enough to read some vax displays not to mind edit the contents.
So maybe our grammer and spelling should be getting better. But that still leaves no excuse for the flaming that seems to be more prevalent than ever before.

Stephen · 17-05-2001 2:20am

Also, I would think there is a hell of a lot more "kids" online today than there was even just 3 years ago, now that the average home has some form of internet access.

Take a look at the counter-strike board here - its played by a LOT of young people - age 11+, but its also played by the older crowd, including some of those smelly old Quakeworld people

Half of the threads on the CS board are flames or spam or other pointless crap, full of capital letters and multiple exclamation marks, and generally a pain in the a$$ to read. The rest are of a more normal nature - well thought out, properly composed and formatted posts that are actually readable without inducing a migraine.

- Munch

nesf · 17-05-2001 4:28pm

But you cannot blame just the kids, there is alot of hostility on some of the boards towards, certain opinions or groups, goths for example. And the whole avatar thing? How is a newbie supposed to know if a certain avatar is taken, and how can someone expect to have sole use of one of them?? For example about 5 others use this avatar, Blitzkrieger etc, and I've never had anything said to me about using it.

Shouldn't netiquitte also cover issues such as this? Sometimes the anomanimity of the internet makes people forget basic manners when interacting with others, like can you imagine some guy coming up to you in a club and asking you to stop calling yourself your name because he had the same name and was there before you? Even though the argument would be completly sematicical as you both look different?? Can you see that happening in any civilised area of the country??

Well, maybe in dublin

TwoShedsJackson · 17-05-2001 4:36pm

The goth thing is mostly meant in fun, with the exception of a couple of individuals who had to express their pentup feelings of macho hate as usual.

As for Avatars, anyone who *****es and moans about someone else using 'their' avatar, is a sad git who needs their head slamming in a door. Like it is a collection of pixels that appear under your name, get a grip.

I never bothered picking one as most of them are fairly daft. They're obviously meant for fun, but you get people creating threads complaining about 'whoring' them - please!!

DeVore · 17-05-2001 4:43pm

What Castor said. With Bells. And much door banging.

DeV.

nesf · 17-05-2001 4:48pm

Were you agreeing, disagreeing or refining what I said Castor?

Where did the term netiquitte originate anyway?

Coyote · 17-05-2001 4:54pm

I do not see what was wrong with the avatar post, any thing i said on it were good points, it was just a nice idea that people would have a avatar just to them selfs, as for netiquette i think it's dieing a death, there is just too many people on the boards to have the small comuanety that we had a few years ago (not saying more people is bad, just people know each other less) the less people on any board the less people will be rude.

Coyote

SHADOW · 17-05-2001 5:30pm

That whole netiquette thing I think originated to give ppl guidlines to follow, in order for everyone to play nice with each other, in what was essentially a new forum for comms.

That said the internet the way it is now (i.e. so easily and widely accessed), I think that anyone who uses it and has even a ounce of a)responsibility/maturity OR b)cop on, will be more than capable of figuring out what they should/shouldnt do.

As to that avatar rumble, I agree with CT on that one. Its a collection of pixels ffs. Get a life.

Shad

[This message has been edited by SHADOW (edited 17-05-2001).]

Paladin · 17-05-2001 7:05pm

From Dictionary.com:

netiquette

<convention, networking> /net'ee-ket/ or /net'i-ket/ Network etiquette.

The conventions of politeness recognised on Usenet and in mailing lists, such as not (cross-)posting to inappropriate groups and refraining from commercial advertising outside the biz groups.

The most important rule of netiquette is "Think before you post". If what you intend to post will not make a positive contribution to the newsgroup and be of interest to several readers, don't post it! Personal messages to one or two individuals should not be posted to newsgroups, use private e-mail instead.

When following up an article, quote the minimum necessary to give some context to your reply and be careful to attribute the quote to the right person. If the article you are responding to was posted to several groups, edit the distribution ("Newsgroups:") header to contain only those groups which are appropriate to your reply, especially if the original message was posted to one or more inappropriate groups in the first place.

Re-read and edit your posting carefully before you post. Check the spelling and grammar. Keep your lines to less than 70 characters. Don't post test messages (except to test groups) - wait until you have something to say. When posting humorous or sarcastic comments, it is conventional to append a smiley, but don't overuse them.

Before asking a question, read the messages already in the group and read the group's FAQ if it has one. When you do post a question, follow it with "please reply by mail and I will post a summary if requested" and make sure you DO post a summary if requested, or if only a few people were interested, send them a summary by mail. This avoids umpteen people posting the same answer to the group and umpteen others posting "me too"s.

If you believe someone has violated netiquette, send them a message by _private e-mail_, DO NOT post a follow-up to the news. And be polite, they may not realise their mistake, they might be a beginner or may not even have been responsible for the "crime" - their account may have been used by someone else or their address forged.

Be proud of your postings but don't post just to see your name in pixels. Remember: your future employer may be reading.

HAHA.
And I thought Devore just made it up by corrupting internet and etiquette.
I was giving him too much credit again

Sorry Dev.
In future I will expect less of you in case so I dont judge you unfairly.
You playing in the CA league btw?

Magwitch · 17-05-2001 7:10pm

As more dumb asses learn to use the net, Netiquette was bound to be a casuality of the ignorant and unimformed....and thats not a flame but a valid observation.

Keep your powder dry and your pants moist

Shiminay · 18-05-2001 10:06am

What is netiquette?
It's common sense and manners - nothing more!

Where has netiquette gone?
Good question!

Why has it disappeared?
Because there's been such an influx of new people to the online world - it's now a thing for regular people (not just the nerds). Unfortunatley, more people = more stupidity.

What can we do to encourage it's re-introduction to the online society?
Moderate (those of us who are moderators).
Try to be patient with someone who posts daft messages that make no sense and are impossible to read.
Kick the muppets (I notice that Hendrix person has given up since we started ignoring him).
Teach the newbies the ways of the web!

Here ends Dav's handy guide to what you already know

All the best!
Dav
@B^)
We were all set for a game of Ice Hockey when Frank Williams says "Sorry lads, I've forgotten my skates!"
[honey i] violated [the kids]
Tribes 2 Goodness
The Dawn of the Beefy King approaches...

Excelsior · 18-05-2001 1:01pm

A pertinent link from the greatest website in the world:
http://www.modernhumorist.com/mh/0105/netiquette02/

My Adolescent website:
http://www.iol.net/~mullent

nesf · 18-05-2001 2:35pm

Originally posted by Coyote:
as for netiquette i think it's dieing a death, there is just too many people on the boards to have the small comuanety that we had a few years ago (not saying more people is bad, just people know each other less) the less people on any board the less people will be rude.

Coyote

Post nitpicking spelling and grammar deleted. Coyote has mentioned previously that he's dyslexic, therefore maybe you should think about possible other causes of grammar and spelling mistakes in posts.

As warned in the previous thread, any and all posts complaining about grammar or spelling will be deleted.

[This message has been edited by Castor Troy (edited 18-05-2001).]

Coyote · 18-05-2001 5:06pm

lol pick on my spelling hey :P

it's a small mind that can think of just one way to spell a word : mark twain :P

and yea i did have to look up how to spell his name :P
I have never cared what others think of my spelling people who are worth knowing do not care, it's what your trying to say not how it's spelt, as a other point some other people can be hurt by people picking on there spelling so try to be nice and have fun :P

Coyote

DeVore · 18-05-2001 5:25pm

*sigh*

I thought one thread one be safe from it...

DeV.

nesf · 21-05-2001 1:05pm

I wasn't actually nitpicking over grammar, I was making an observation on the difference between two ways of phrasing it, and the attitude shown towards the other user because of it.

So I've no idea of why my post was deleted/edited, and I'm totally unsure about the above replies to it.

I thought I was making myself clear, that I wasn't complainging over Coyote's grammar but in fact just pointing out the lack of patience and ettiquitte shown by some users.

Also the latter half of the post was to reassure Coyote that I wasn't attacking his argument, and that I wasn't trying to re-start the debate on the avatar issue on this thread. I don't hold a strong opinion on the matter and didn't want to ruin the thread.

So, can you please justify editing my thread? I'm guessing that my intent and meaning was misunderstood. If that was the case, and you were unsure as to the meaning of what I posted, wasn't it a little severe to edit the post?

[This message has been edited by nesf (edited 21-05-2001).]

nesf · 21-05-2001 1:14pm

Originally posted by Castor:
Post nitpicking spelling and grammar deleted. Coyote has mentioned previously that he's dyslexic, therefore maybe you should think about possible other causes of grammar and spelling mistakes in posts.

[This message has been edited by Castor Troy (edited 18-05-2001).]

For that I apologise to Coyote it was not meant in the fashion that Castor interpreted it, As stated above I was making a completly seperate point, and I'm making this post to assure you that there was no insult intended.

Coyote · 21-05-2001 4:27pm

nesf there is just about nothing that people can about my spelling that would hurt me

I'm not sure what your point was as it was gone befor i could read it.
CT might have been a bit hard but to mod a board like this it's better to be safe that sorry about things that you not sure of.

/me runs off to mess up more people on irc trying to work out what i'm saying

Coyote

Shinji · 22-05-2001 12:49am

What Netiquette actually covers is a quite broad range of things, but the vast majority of it boils down to common sense and manners - both of which seem to be lacking in many new inductees to the online world.

For example, netiquette dictates that when you come to a new forum - a mailing list, a bulletin board, a newsgroup, an IRC channel - you listen in ("lurk") for a while to work out who is who, what questions come up constantly, and the general do's and don'ts of the forum. Then and only then do you start posting. It's simple and it saves SO much grief.

When sending an email, you quote blocks of the mail you're replying to and write your reply beneath the blocks, not above the previous mail. This one REALLY gets on my wick - as does HTML email, or sig files without the "-- " seperator. I go through about 1000 mails a day at least, badly formatted rubbish is just a complete pain in the behind.

What REALLY gets to me is that when you point out major breaches in netiquette (and I've only outlined two tiny aspects of it above), people bristle at you and tell you that it's up to THEM how they behave and post and send emails and whatnot online, and that rules like this are "silly". Inevitably, these people are folk who have been using the net for a wet weekend and get a total of 10 emails a day, so it doesn't matter a damn to them how badly formatted the mails are or how high the signal:noise ratio online is.

Bloody newbies, eh? Put 'em in front of a PC and everyone's an expert - it does my head in.

nesf · 22-05-2001 12:18pm

Originally posted by Coyote:

I'm not sure what your point was as it was gone befor i could read it.
CT might have been a bit hard but to mod a board like this it's better to be safe that sorry about things that you not sure of.

Coyote

Thats my feelings too, but then again, I only choose to write two possible relies that commented on your post, as this seemed to me to be a relevant method of contrasting two approaches, rather than using two hypothetical answers.

I should have made that more clear, but I'd have liked a chance to defend my post also. Ah well whats done is done, I just hope that it's clear now that I wasn't critising your post. Also, I'm unsure as to why my entire post was deleted.

Either way, I didn't know you had dyslexia, but I've alot of sympathy, two friends of mine have it, and believe me, that isn't a good thing to have if you are studying maths.

[This message has been edited by nesf (edited 22-05-2001).]

Yossarian · 22-05-2001 12:53pm

Originally posted by Shinji:

When sending an email, you quote blocks of the mail you're replying to and write your reply beneath the blocks, not above the previous mail. This one REALLY gets on my wick - as does HTML email, or sig files without the "-- " seperator.

This is something that ****es me of as well. my work collegues seem to think HTML email with background images, 7 line sigs with animated gif's are acceptible. Thats not including the 13 line 'legal' disclaimer at the end of the mail. Attempts to educate them have so far proved fruitless, think ill resort to using the clue stick.
Is there an RFC for email layout/format?

Shiminay · 23-05-2001 2:13pm

Somone I know used to send emails with a script type font which was marroon in colour and sat on a red background - it was incredibly difficult to read, so I had to copy and paste the email into notepad to read 'em. I told him that I couldn't read his email, and he replied saying a couple of people said that (but it was still unchanged).
So I returned all his emails in plain text and said - I can't read this - please send again in plain text.
After a month, he lost the BG colour - it was still not the easiest to read cause of the font, so I kept returning and returning and never answered any of his questions until he switched to plain text.

He later made an observation that his email seemed to be going quicker for some reason and I kindly let him in on the little secret that plain text = much smaller!!!

All the best!
Dav
@B^)
We were all set for a game of Ice Hockey when Frank Williams says "Sorry lads, I've forgotten my skates!"
[honey i] violated [the kids]
Tribes 2 Goodness
The Dawn of the Beefy King approaches...

Hobbes · 23-05-2001 2:27pm

Originally posted by Yossarian:

Originally posted by Shinji:

When sending an email, you quote blocks of the mail you're replying to and write your reply beneath the blocks, not above the previous mail. This one REALLY gets on my wick - as does HTML email, or sig files without the "-- " seperator. 

This is something that ****es me of as well. my work collegues seem to think HTML email with background images, 7 line sigs with animated gif's are acceptible. Thats not including the 13 line 'legal' disclaimer at the end of the mail. Attempts to educate them have so far proved fruitless, think ill resort to using the clue stick.
Is there an RFC for email layout/format?

No no no, the best one is getting that email forwarded to you from another person with a massive sig who says "I agree".

amp · 24-05-2001 3:00pm

I learned netiquette from a guy called Sven Guckes. I was Skywalker to his Yoda. But there are occasions when netiquette can chafe so ya just gotta get naked AND TYPE ALL IN CAPS!!!!!!!1

Lunacy Abounds! GLminesweeper RO><ORS!
art is everything and of course nothing and possibly also a sausage

Netiquette

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