alrtuism: does it exist in todays society?

synchro

:rolleyes:

oscarBravo

Yes.

synchro

oscarBravo wrote:

Yes.

giv an example where u hav encountered it or heard of it existance

mike65

synchro, as you saw fit to start this thread why don't you give us your thoughts?

Mike.

Stark

The pledge for appeal funds to South East Asia has gotten an unprecedented response. I'd call that altruism.

A little local example to be honest

synchro

Stark wrote:

The pledge for appeal funds to South East Asia has gotten an unprecedented response. I'd call that altruism.

yes id agree att can be seen as an act of altriusm however the donars are benfitting in a way ttat is sometimes ovelooked-the feel good factor.
From donating some money they now feel good about themselves

synchro

i think altruism idsdead in western society, as ppl do not do things here unless they gain in some way or another

pwd

no that's just america

ireland gives a lot of money to charity,,, largely made up of anonymous donations. Lots of people do charity work or jobs where the major reward is not monetary such as nursing (they get to see lots of willies)

Sangre

synchro wrote:

yes id agree att can be seen as an act of altriusm however the donars are benfitting in a way ttat is sometimes ovelooked-the feel good factor.
From donating some money they now feel good about themselves

I would imagine post people wouldn't feel good about the disaster and would only hope they good do more.

pwd

it is terribly cynical to say that people are only ever nice to stroke their own egos and validate themselves,, feel a nice warm fuzzy glow.
Only twats are like that. It shows extreme self-absorption. America. save the fuzzy widdle baby animals. urgh why's he all big and not cute any more get rid of it.
Most people who perform generous acts do so because they see something that needs to be done and they see a way of helping. It is an adult decision.
I worked one summer in the dspca. The people working there don't get much in the way of warm fuzzy glow. If they do they're not going to last very long in that sort of work. Saw travellers' horses that had been living off their own faeces, for weeks probably, flesh rotting on their bones and eyes bulging in a way that gave them a shocked look. no exaggeration here,,, people's reaction to them was generally "urgh"! they didn;t want to see you know?

Kevin_rc_ie

meercats and chimps display altruism

pwd

so do:
dolphins
dogs
killer whales

probably any animal with an advanced social brain.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

mike65

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

But please God I hope no one does!

Also if some of us do like to feel good about doing good, so what? It acheives the same end result.

Mike.

Stark

Synchro, I could give you lessons in spelling and grammar, but that wouldn't be an act of altruism on my part; it would be to preserve my sanity on reading your posts

If people feel good from helping others, that doesn't mean they're not being altruistic. Feeling pride might impinge on the definition of altruism a little, but not a general sense of well-being from doing good. Doing good with a cold heart isn't better than doing it with a smile on your face simply because of some ill-thought out system of judgement.

Evilution

altruism: does it exist in todays society?

No, because it can't. People are too suspicious of others for it to work. People always look for an agenda. Thats why I never hold doors for anyone anymore, because I usually have to open the door first since someone let it shut in my face.

elivsvonchiaing

I carry a golf-umbrella when it its still blue-sky -I can still use it as a weapon! Sad that it had come to this :eek:

simu

Evilution wrote:

altruism: does it exist in todays society?

No, because it can't. People are too suspicious of others for it to work. People always look for an agenda. Thats why I never hold doors for anyone anymore, because I usually have to open the door first since someone let it shut in my face.

???

Holding a door open for someone isn't altruism (unless they're absolutely incapable of doing it for themselves) - it's just a habit that has gone out of fashion and so, it seems weird and thus annoying when people do it.

I think altruism (or that which appears to be altruism) still exists as much as it ever has, at least. In fact, it's probably stronger than say, in the middle ages, when for example royalty believed they had a divine right to rule and that their subjects really were scum. Many governments today still act as if this were so but the idea of equality has seeped its way into most people's heads. Of course, it's a different matter changing how the world is run so that this is put into practice.

mewso

I'm mystified as to how feeling good about helping others is a bad thing. When you see somebody happy because you have helped them it should make you feel warm and fuzzy. I don't believe people get adicted to this warm fuzzy feeling and start running around looking to help people to get their fix. I think it's a natural by product that you will feel good. Most of us don't want or need to advertise our good deeds unless we are celebrities and as such altruism is less evident.

Evilution

simu wrote:

Holding a door open for someone isn't altruism (unless they're absolutely incapable of doing it for themselves) - it's just a habit that has gone out of fashion and so, it seems weird and thus annoying when people do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but altruism is any action done by someone which is done for the benefit of someone else without the giver wanting anything in return? If so, then holding a door IS probably altruistic.
Don't even get me into an argument on altruism - there is a whole philosophy behind the fact that no action can ever be truely altruistic, because we always 'want' something, either consciously or unconsciously. This sort of stuff is the bane of philosophy students lives.

stratos

Altruism is my goal. I help people fix punctures. i would never pass a broken down car ( I know a bit about cars). I will help people in anyway I can. why do I do this? it's not about reward or fuzzy feelings. I do it because we are all in the same boat. it's just life.

greengoddess

God this post makes me feel grim. What are we here for if we can't do something for someone else, without anyone feeling cynical, or that there's a catch somewhere, or that there's something being asked in return? What the hell is life all about?

Tell the person caring for their elderly parents 24 hours a day seven days a week, because they cannot bear to see them go into care, that there is no such thing as altruism.

Tell the person looking after their disabled child with no regard for their own health and freedom that there is no such thing as altruism

Tell those people working for voluntary agencies at home and abroad or teachers that give up of their time to take kids training, that there is no such thing as altruism.

Do I need to go on, or is this society got so cynical and materialistic that people refuse to see any good in anyone else?

ArthurDent

I've just watched my gran die a slow grim death from alzheimers. For over 6 months she didn't recognise her family and was distressed and agressive. She was a very difficult patient, she was very difficult for me to see and I loved her dearly, but I saw so many nursing and care staff go out of the way to care for her, long after she stopped caring about herself. They brushed her hair, they put perfume on her, they painted her nails, they massaged her hands. They didn't get angry when she shouted at them or threw things at them.They made me and my family cups of tea and held our hands. On the day she died my grandad took ill and had to be rushed off to another hospital and when she died they left her in her room for hours after they should have, just so he could come back and spend some time with her. The came to her funeral and spoke to us about her. All of these actions were altruistic, they didn't have, weren't paid to do all these extra things and I'll think of those wonderful men and women for the rest of my life and how they gave my gran back her dignity and gave us comfort in a very difficult time.

Neuro

Altruism: The quality of unselfish concern for the welfare of others.

The answer, quite simply, is no. Some posters have stated that certain animals display altruism. This is inaccurate; what these animals actually display is Reciprocal Altruism i.e. You scratch my back now and I'll scratch yours later. Reciprocal altruism is a misnomer as it isn't really altruism at all. People also tend to confuse Kin Selection with altruism.

Unfortunately, pure altruism, which is what I think the original poster was referring to, cannot evolve. In technical terms it's not an Evolutionary Stable Strategy. Imagine if altruism did evolve in an individual; non-altruistic individuals would quickly abuse the altruistic individual’s generosity and the likelihood of the altruist passing on their genes would rapidly approach zero. Even if an entire species somehow developed an altruistic trait a gene would eventually mutate allowing a non-altruistic individual to take advantage of the altruists (free-rider problem), would quickly spread and eliminate all of the altruists.

Further reading:
The Selfish Gene, Richard Dawkins
The Blank Slate, Stephen Pinker
Evolutionary Psychology, M. D. Buss