Flags

TwoShedsJackson

Residents of the state of Mississippi vote on April 17th whether or not to change their state flag so that it no longer includes the Confederate battle flag in the top lefthand corner. It seems that the folk who wish to keep the flag as it is currently have a majority of a couple of percentage points.

On a recent student demonstration we were treated to some studes with a slogan scrawled over a Tricolour, basically defacing the symbol of the Irish nation.

How much store do you put in flags nowadays? Potent symbol or relic(s) of the past?

Paladin

They are still potent national symbols - Think about serbia's hatred of the croation flag.

I personally dont find flags very emotive.

Hobbes

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Paladin:
I personally dont find flags very emotive.</font>

So you would wear a Union Jack t-shirt then?

bugler

Still potent.Whether you are patriotic or not,how would you feel if you saw someone p|ssing on a tricolour(or whatever your countries' flag)?

amp

I don't find most of them to particularly emotive, just symbolic. I do get slightly annoyed to see the Irish flag with "Anto Waz Ere" scrawled on it, but hey it's not that important in the scale of things.

I do respect the Irish flag though. To me it's designed to promote peace between the Green of Irish Nationalism and the Orangemen of Ulster, which I think is cool.

I think because flags are used so much and because of their simplistic design people associate them much quicker with nationalities. Watching a Palestinian on TV burning an American flag (even though it's merely dyed cloth) can be a very powerful image.

I suspose it's akin to religion in that way. People project a lot feeling into symbols. To most people their national flag represents their culture and what they have in common. In some countries the divide between nationalism and religion is unfortunately small (Israel and Iran for example) and the religious symbol becomes part of the flag. I think this is wrong because it doesn't allow representation of other religions.

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Trojan

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hobbes:
So you would wear a Union Jack t-shirt then?

</font>

Good point!

And funnily enough, the Union Jack is disliked by the English since it has St. Patricks cross on it (the red diagonals), that's why they use St. Georges Cross as their symbol.

The Welsh dragon is my favorite ( after our own of course ).

I knew an Irish American guy who was a flag-carrier (tech. term??) in the
US army. He told me he always used to put the Irish flag fractionally higher than the US one on the poles. I'm sure that wasn't quite legal.

Al.

Hobbes

yea, the US have very strict rules on how to display the flag. Your national flag should be higher then all others.

They have other werid rules as well, like you can't drop the flag, can't burn it (or can you? There was a case about that?)

Bucon

I dunno if they are rules, but i think the same applies for any flag.

It like money, your not meant to write on/deface them...or destroy them.


Bucon.

Paladin

To be honest hobbes, I wouldnt wear an Irish tricolour T-shirt either cause they just aint stylish , but thats still not my point.

And what you are saying is TOTALLY different.
Wearing a union jack is like a statement "I am british" which I am not. Why would I do that? Thats a completely different thing to finding a flag emotive. Thats finding a flag to be symbolic of a nation perhaps.

I stand by my statement that I dont find flags very emotive.

Respect them, yes, different story.

DadaKopf

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hobbes:
yea, the US have very strict rules on how to display the flag. Your national flag should be higher then all others.

They have other werid rules as well, like you can't drop the flag, can't burn it (or can you? There was a case about that?)</font>

Every state pretty much has crazy-assed rules about their flags. This one here has the rules about the American flag. Couldn't find anything in the Irish Constitution about it except Acticle 2 I think, which stipulates the colours. All I know for sure is that it must be higher or equal to all other flags except for half-mast and must be taken down at sunset and put up at sunrise - this is law apparently!

There ya go

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"I collect spores, moulds and fungus."

Clintons Cat

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">And funnily enough, the Union Jack is disliked by the English since it has St. Patricks cross on it (the red diagonals), that's why they use St. Georges Cross as their symbol.</font>

it also has the cross of st andrew on it (the blue and white diagonals)this is why the cross of st george is used at sporting functions to distinguish between the english team and the scots team.it is a sad fact that the cross of st george has been hi jacked by the far right especially the most rabidly xenophobic anti-celt,anti scot,minority.
But please dont think this is a reflection on all those who fly the union jack or cross of st george.

One of New Labours Coups at the last election was to reclaim the union jack from the extreme right.
Basically be proud of your flag and what it stands for or be prepared to loose it to rascist scumbag nationalists.

DadaKopf

in spite of it's associations, i always thought the union flag was pretty cool - the welsh, scottish, menglish and later northern-irish flag all superimposed onto one another.

how to tell that it's upside down is another thing!

meglome

It funny I don't mind the English or Scotish flags but the Union Jack really seems to stand for something that I don't like. Or maybe it's just how it's used by the right in England and Scotland as an anti-Irish anti-catholic thing. Although I don't mind culchies calling me a jackeen (as in he who follows the Union Jack)

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DadaKopf

the flag is guilty by association.

it's properly called 'The Union Flag' and it's the actual Union people have a problem with because it's the union, and anti-Irish, anti-Catholic, anti-nationalist, anti-secessionist sentiment of Westminster which has resulted in the connotations most people have today. Of course, it's the same with the Irish flag in the north too - big problems with Unionists.

Now, there's even big problems about the placing of Easter lillies [symbol of the 1916 rising] in Stormont.

BLAH.

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"I collect spores, moulds and fungus."

DonQuay

Being totally honest, I regard the tri-colour as a symbol of what we want this country to represent to others across this planet when they see it. If other peoples are burning our flag, or the union jack, or the stars and stripes then that, to my mind sends a strong message to a nation of the feelings towards that nation by other peoples. And its no good being all xenophobic and blaming it on the system or the mores and principles of other peoples. Your flag is a symbol of what you project on to the world stage and so, if it is being burnt abroad then some blame must be attached to the country whose flag it is.
On another matter, there is a law - to the best of my knowledge - that says that the Irish flag is supposed to be flown above any other flags in the general area, by a certain number of feet. It does not do this (or any other) country good to have its own personal symbol NOT treated with the greatest respect in its own country but that would appear to be the case in this country to-day is that not only government buildings but private buildings flaunt that law on a daily basis. Indeed to such an extent does it go on that the 'flag' with the name of well known retail outlets or other corporate turd-ology are regularly flown at the same height as our national symbol, and that to me indicates either extreme disrespect for our country or else a startling ignorance of our feelings and indeed our laws.

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Magwitch

It is actually stupid of pepole to deface the national (or any national) flag. Regardless of personal views, somebody would be offended and other people patriotic views should be respected, especially if they are only that. It is annoying to see Pubs adresses scrawled over the national flag at football matches, it is not standard practice in many other European countries.

So I think this attests to the rather "laddish and be damned" attitude of some people. They would be the first to take offence if a foreigner defaced a Tri-colour.

Interestingly though (try this at home folks) ask a few people what the colours of the Natioal flag are. Alot of people will actually say it is Green White and GOLD, the Kerry colours. Watch out for these Kerry versions of the National Flag at Landsdown road, there are quite a few of them.

deRanged

if you're displaying a number flags, one of which is the irish flag it must be at least half an inch higher than the next highest flag.

check the flagpoles at GAA pitches or soccer grounds and you should notice the difference.

Winning Hand

What I always wonder about is where do the arabs, palestinians, indonisians and so on actually get all the american flags they burn each day? I mean is there some bloke in texas doing a stonking business exporting their national symbol? Although it could be dubya himself doing wonders for the economy

Clintons Cat

lol,
there is a notion that TV crews carry around a few flags to pass out to disgruntled locals...Ever wonder how the crews get such got shots of crowd disturbances why there is no one gets in the way of the camera at these flag burning events? All those people running round hysterical and no one gets in frame inadvertantly...

Clintons Cat

Hehe

Anyone seen Daymien Day on Drop The Dead Donkey?

Next time you watch the news Keep an eye out for the Standard news footage cliches,analyse the way the frames are constucted,almost as though someone was directing these spontaneous outpourings of public grief.
Both sides collude in this its called news management...No good footage and the story slips down the priorities,so make sure you turn up with a neatly pressed flag...oh you forgot to bring oh heres one we prepared earlier.

bugler

Eh,any flagmaker/seemstress type person could make a flag.Dubya is far too dumb to think up such an ingenius plan