Yushchenko wins Ukraine election

Big Ears

Suprised this hasn't been posted already , and forgive me if it has .
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4127203.stm .

I hope justice has finally been done , and that there was no shenanegans .

Raskolnikov

There's more to this story than we're being led to believe.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8CF314BD-0BD9-4A59-89B6-95E989034DFE.htm

The poisoning of Yushchenko and anti-Yanukovich bias in the Western media no doubt won the election for Yushchenko.

Big Ears

Raskolnikov wrote:

There's more to this story than we're being led to believe.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8CF314BD-0BD9-4A59-89B6-95E989034DFE.htm

The poisoning of Yushchenko and anti-Yanukovich bias in the Western media no doubt won the election for Yushchenko.

and the support of World heavyweight champion Vitali Klitschko , certainly would have swayed a few voters in Yushenko's way . Klitscko retained his title for the first time just over two weeks before the election .

Victor

Raskolnikov wrote:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8CF314BD-0BD9-4A59-89B6-95E989034DFE.htm

That story is from the last election.

Raskolnikov wrote:

The poisoning of Yushchenko and anti-Yanukovich bias in the Western media no doubt won the election for Yushchenko.

And that Ruslana wild dancing chick

DapperGent

Fix!

OfflerCrocGod

Raskolnikov wrote:

The poisoning of Yushchenko and anti-Yanukovich bias in the Western media no doubt won the election for Yushchenko.

No doubt, because Ukrainians watch Sky News for their daily news........

Raskolnikov

Victor wrote:

That story is from the last election.

I was making the point that there was meddling from the two interested parties (Russia and the West) into Ukrainian affairs.

There was a story about this on BBC's Newsnight a few days back, this article on The Guardian echos the same sentiment.

mike65

Who cares this time the right guy won! No doubt the vote was'nt entirely honest and fair but the general view is that this time the result is the correct one.

Mike.

Poker_Peter

Well the worst the article in Al Jazeera can say about Yuschenko is that he is "accused" of stealing millions from the Central Bank. But then, Putin is also going after people who criticise him, claiming they have committed fraud ,e.g. former Yukos boss Mikhail Khordokovsky. I feel that Kuchma and Yanuckovych are cut from the same cloth as Putin so I wouldn't give these allegations too much credibility. Anyway, these elections were free and fair this time.

chewy

National Endownment of Democracy funds Ukrainian "Opposition"

It's the same folks who were busy funding "democracy" in Venezuala...

The AP has finally come out with a story about the funding behind the Orange Revolution which is under way in Ukraine (via Dominon).

As is to be expected, it's the same folks who were busy funding democracy movements in Venezuela. In this case a lot of the money was routed through the Eurasia Foundation, the Centre for Political and Legal Reforms, the International Republican Institute, many NED funded organizations such as American Center for International Labor Solidarity, Center for International Private Enterprise, the Democratic Initiatives Foundation, the Europe XXI Foundation, the Open Society Foundation - Ukraine, the National Democartic Institute For International Affairs, the Ukrainian Legal Foundation, the Ukrainian Center for Economic and Political Research (Razumkov Center), and others....

http://www.anarchogeek.com/archives/000467.html

http://dominionpaper.ca/weblog/2004/12/orange_revolution_with_a_healthy_dose_of_green.html

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20041211/news_1n11usaid.html

chewy

i read another report that said yuko had diabetes and simply poisoned himself by feasting on luxurious foods..

They emerged from the anti-Milosevic student movement, Otpor, meaning resistance. The catchy, single-word branding is important. In Georgia last year, the parallel student movement was Khmara. In Belarus, it was Zubr. In Ukraine, it is Pora, meaning high time. Otpor also had a potent, simple slogan that appeared everywhere in Serbia in 2000 - the two words "gotov je", meaning "he's finished", a reference to Milosevic. A logo of a black-and-white clenched fist completed the masterful marketing.

I remmebr them getting the MTV free your mind award... are they like the swp?

Victor

chewy wrote:

I remmebr them getting the MTV free your mind award... are they like the swp?

Nah, nothing like the SWP, these guys get things done.

chewy

from reading the guardian report it seems like its a very simple thing to do, if only it were that simple to take down a corrupt gov!!! one must be only able to have fake revolutions in countries that are very fragile to begin with

pickarooney

Victor wrote:

That story is from the last election.And that Ruslana wild dancing chick

Surely Shevchenko's golden-ball winning antics swayed popular opinion towards the similarly-named politicus?

talos

mike65 wrote:

Who cares this time the right guy won! No doubt the vote was'nt entirely honest and fair but the general view is that this time the result is the correct one.

Mike.

right for whom? west?
what about east?

Poker_Peter

i read another report that said yuko had diabetes and simply poisoned himself by feasting on luxurious foods..

The Ukrainian government claimed that. Oh I really believe them! :rolleyes:

Austrian doctors who actually examined him said it was poisoning. Given that his body contained 1000 times the normal level of dioxins found in humans I somewhat doubt this was an accident, especially given that the poison was an ingredient in Agent Orange, which was used in the Vietnam war.

I was making the point that there was meddling from the two interested parties (Russia and the West) into Ukrainian affairs.

Since "the West" is not a country, it differs from the Russian meddling in that Russia used to rule Ukraine as part of its evil empire and Putin has imperial ambitions. The West's intervention is in defence of democracy. A man like Putin, whose election "observers" in Uzbekistan have just called the Uzbek election free and fair (even though all the parties opposed to President Islam Karimov were banned from standing), as well as having rigged the elections in Chechnya and Ingushetia, not to mention taken over the TV and radio media in Russia, not to mention the poisoning of journalist Anna Politkovskaya for criticising Putin's Chechnya policy, should have no credibility whatsoever on issues of democracy.

We are entitled to "meddle" where democracy is being attacked.

Cork

The people have now voted in free and fair election.

Fair play to the Ukrainian people engaging in a campaign aganist the first election.

I hope Ukraine will have closer ties with the west cutting their apron strings to Russia.

Ukraine is an idependant country and fair and free elections shoud now be respected (Even by Russia)

pickarooney

Poker_Peter wrote:

I somewhat doubt this was an accident, especially given that the poison was an ingredient in Agent Orange, which was used in the Vietnam war.

Also in ingredient in Belgian chicken dishes. Perhaps KFC Antwerp has something to answer for?

arcadegame2004

pickarooney wrote:

Also in ingredient in Belgian chicken dishes. Perhaps KFC Antwerp has something to answer for?

If it were just chicken-dishes we'd all have it by now, especially after chirmbo. :rolleyes:

arcadegame2004

talos wrote:

right for whom? west?
what about east?

Right as far as a majority in Ukraine are concerned. It is their decision.

If this election result annoys Putin, then good.

chewy

"Right as far as a majority in Ukraine are concerned. It is their decision"

yes but if the majority of the population were exposed to extreme false propaganda via tv external groups agitating then was ther decision based on good info?

arcadegame2004

chewy wrote:

"Right as far as a majority in Ukraine are concerned. It is their decision"

yes but if the majority of the population were exposed to extreme false propaganda via tv external groups agitating then was ther decision based on good info?

Well I'd say that in the previous 2 rounds, Ukrainians were exposed to attempted brainwashing by State TV, including the televised 'results'. The most obvious example of this could be seen in a results program on State TV where the newsreader was saying that Yanuckovych had won, while the simulataneous news for the deaf (on the same program) was saying she was lying! Also, Putin got his puppet TV channels to blurt out pro-Yanuckovych propaganda in Russia. The false propaganda comes from the pro-Russian side, I'm afraid.

If you are implying that the third round where Yuschenko was involved false TV propaganda then this is only true with respect to the continued censorship of the media in Eastern Ukraine, where the newly independent State TV was prevented from broadcasting what Yanuckovych didn't like.

The TV footage on Sky News of Yuschenko supporters being beaten with baseball bats by thugs, together with video-footage of people voting 10 times and then being bussed around the country in government vans to vote again in another polling-station, together with Yuschenko's poisoning, is definitely enough to convince me that the authorities rigged the previous polls.

The less influence Russia has in the world, the better for democracy. Look at how their saying the rigged election in Uzbekistan were free and fair. Putin is definitely the antithesis of a moral authority on democracy and freedom. He wouldn't know democracy if it slapped him in the face. The new EU members have plenty of experience of Russian totalitarianism and they are pushing the EU to take a more critical attitude to Russia. I hope this happens.

chewy

so you agree with me that, propaganda nad aigitation blitz both sides,
course there's always the third way...


The less influence the USA has in the world, the better for democracy. Look at how their saying the rigged election in Iraq will be free and fair. Bush is definitely the antithesis of a moral authority on democracy and freedom. He wouldn't know democracy if it slapped him in the face.

arcadegame2004

chewy wrote:

so you agree with me that, propaganda nad aigitation blitz both sides,
course there's always the third way...


The less influence the USA has in the world, the better for democracy. Look at how their saying the rigged election in Iraq will be free and fair. Bush is definitely the antithesis of a moral authority on democracy and freedom. He wouldn't know democracy if it slapped him in the face.

I don't recall Yuschenko ordering the killing of journalists when he was Prime Minister a few years ago, unlike the killing of the journalist Heorhiy Gongadze whose headless corpse was found a few months ago, suspected to be the work of the Kuchma regime.

BTW, what evidence do you have that the elections in Iraq will be rigged? The ones in Afghanistan weren't, according to the UN.

Moriarty

Poker_Peter wrote:

Given that his body contained 1000 times the normal level of dioxins found in humans I somewhat doubt this was an accident, especially given that the poison was an ingredient in Agent Orange, which was used in the Vietnam war.

Dioxins are still in many things in small quantitys, they're nothing new. They were used everywhere for ages, because no one even knew they were harmful until the late '60s. 'Oops'.

arcadegame2004

Dioxins are still in many things in small quantitys, they're nothing new. They were used everywhere for ages, because no one even knew they were harmful until the late '60s. 'Oops'.

Well the Austrian doctors examines him and they concluded he was poisoned. I don't see lots of Irish people going around with injuries like that so I believe the doctors and given that Yanuckovych and Kuchma are buddies with Putin I will stick to my earlier conclusions.

All election campaigns involve "propaganda" by all sides, but fair ones don't involve voters being beaten up, allowed to vote multiple times, and transported to multiple polling-stations in government vans (Ukrainian TV showed this in the rigged vote).

Moriarty

I was making an innocent aside, I wasn't challenging the accepted wisdom that he was poisoned.