A bit over the top???

Bard

http://www.immigrationcontrol.org/

What do ye think?

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TwoShedsJackson

mmmm, they are of course entitled to their opinions, however I will say that Aine ni Chonaill is a complete fascist - it boggles the mind that she teaches History in Co. Cork.

As with all such organisations they simply state facts or statistics that support their case and ignore all others.

[This message has been edited by Castor Troy (edited 04-11-2000).]

amp

You know when you're becoming a wealthy country when the neo-nazi's start posting web pages.

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Lunacy Abounds! Play GLminesweeper!

C B

Well this **** makes me sick and sad .

But this site has confirmed that the ICP consists only of Aine ni Connail. I mean I have never seen any other name attached to anything they do.

Doc

How many countries have Irish emigrants living in them. We should be the last place that stops people coming here.

Wyverne

DAMN STRAIGHT DOC!!!!!!!!!

at last census there was 120 million people world wide that claimed at least second generation irish heritage. - no kidding -

so even if you account for people who think its "fashionable" to be irish, that still accounts for a hell of alot of people,

WE ARE THE VERY LAST RACE - BAR NONE - THAT IS ALOWED TO BE RACIST OR ANTI-IMIGRATION, WE HAVE NO RIGHT IMHO

C B

Wyv,

Would you mind telling me which organisation conducted the mamoth task of a full global census?

Or did you just pluck some figures out of the air?

Bard

to my knowledge there are around 30 million in the US alone who claim Irish descent (and that should mean at most- 2nd or 3rd generation).

I have no idea where that figure comes from, though.

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C B

Thw WHO and the CIA may do world stats but not according to ethnic origin.

I don't dispute the figure or that we should welcome immigration.

I just like people tpo reference their source when they throw out "facts".

Hobbes

You going to reference your source stating that world stats not according to Ethenic origin?

Hobbes

the WHO and the CIA do world stats. 120 million looks suspect though

C B

Hobbes,

I have, the WHO and CIA. I do not know of any organisation which publishes statistics about the ethnic origin of the entire global population. It is impossible to reference what does not exist. Those who claim to have specific facts should reference them.

Shinji

Ok, I tell you what.

The number of people worldwide who claim Irish descent, and who are probably descended from Irish immigrants: A BIG F*CKING SH1TLOAD OF PEOPLE.

The number of people of varying ethnic origin who wish to claim asylum in Ireland: A VERY SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE.

I really don't think that actual numbers matter here.

C B

i never said the numbers were crucial. I also agree with the basic point and i am pro-immigration. I just detest half-truths and mis-information of any kind.

Doc

In the flat I’m living in, in England and the one next-door there is 3 Irish people, 1 Angolan, 1 Welsh, a German, 2 English, and girl of Jamaican descent. The only person I’m not getting on with is the other Irish lad this has to say something about the way different cultures can mix with only good consequences.

Jak

Originally posted by Wyverne:
WE ARE THE VERY LAST RACE - BAR NONE - THAT IS ALOWED TO BE RACIST OR ANTI-IMIGRATION, WE HAVE NO RIGHT IMHO

Is that to say that Alaskans have a greater entitlement to prejudice?

The argument that there are so many million of us abroad and therefore we should allow so many back is utter nonsense.

Personally I am all for controlled immigration. I don't believe that throwing wide the doors to the country would benefit either those currently living here or those that hope to.

Immigration needs to offer significant support for those coming in. If they are allowed in, without us having an adequate support mechanism, they will simply end up working menial jobs on low wage.

As money is the prime distinction on which prejudice is based (opinion), this will result in an apparent increase in levels of racism.

If we can get them in, but educate/train them, they will succeed and merge happily into society.

JAK.

ps- Ill get back to this .. got to do some work.

_CreeD_

I loved the bit where she described America as being pretty much there for, and formed by emigration..... I don't think the native Americans would agree....

TwoShedsJackson

If you think the ICP are bad check the website of the White Aryan Resistance - www.resist.com

*WARNING - These boys make the ICP look like rabid communists and freethinkers, so if you're easily offended, don't go there*

amp

Even without taking morality into it, it becomes a question of economics. One of the main reasons for inflation is that there's a labour shortage. Meaning there are not enough people to make the stuff we need and want. So stuff becomes more expensive to meet the increased demand.

I say let everybody in, absolutely everybody. Yeah there'll be a fair few free-loaders, but the majority of people want to work, earn money, have kids etc.

And just to revert to my politically incorrect norm: Who else is going to work in MacDonalds?

Answers on a Large Quarter Pounder with Cheese meal, Fanta with no ice with 6 McNuggets and a barbie happy meal for Eamo to:

amp

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Lunacy Abounds! Play GLminesweeper!

Doc

CB ....No I don't

Jak

The America to which many Irish left was a very large developing country. In many cases, the lack of infrastructure meant that construction or menial work was required.
There was a considerably greater opportunity in America, as the majority of people who initially went there were all starting from scratch and the playing field was open and often undeveloped.

Ireland is not like this America.

Thats a pretty poor comparison to draw CB.

As regards Immigrants as likely to be software engineers as toilet cleaners. Again I disagree. Compare the number of immigrants begging or working in menial jobs to that of immigrants working in good mid level employment.

Proportionally I suspect you will find, that the immigrants are a lot worse off than the current Irish population in residence.

JAK.

C B

Then what are the impediments to immigrants doing as well as those already here, and how can the government eliminate these impediments?

Jak

Language courses.

Provision of housing.

Programs to train people towards mid level vacancies.

As opposed to "Come on in, all of you! We've no idea where you will all go, but sure some of you might do well, and the others obviously didn't work hard enough"


In addition, strong support programs would in effect be a means of monitoring the inflow, so that we reduce those immigrants who are soley intent on exploiting the system and who thereby damage the perception of immigrants as a whole.

Jak

Also ...

Poverty, as many homeless would no doubt testify to, is a serious impediment to attaining any form of gainful employment.

If immigrants are coming in and going to the streets even for a while, they face an awfully tough climb to get themselves out.

C B

Are we rolling together the issues of asylum seekers and immigrants here?

Yes those who come here to escape persecution elsewhere should be helped in the ways you mentioned.

Those who come here in hope of a better life should work to achieve it, and there should be no limit to the amount that can come.

C B

well said amp.

I want my Big Mac in 8 seconds flat
and I want somebody else to take out my rubbish

"Can't somebody else do it"

Jak

As I have said before, Prejudice is primarily based on money.

If the doors are thrown open, the immigrants will be taking on the lowest paid menial jobs. This will put them at an economic disadvantage, which coupled with the apparent racial difference, will lead to escalated division and hatred.

If we don't have thorough support for immigrants, the open door policy is a very short-sighted, happy clapper, PC solution which will result in greater social concerns.

Let them in, in a controlled manner, so that at least they get a better chance.

JAK.

C B

didn't many Irish people take menial jobs in the states and many of their children went on to become quite wealthy and well respected members of society.

also Jak there is a huge shortage of people in all tiers of the labour force and many black/aisan immigrants are as likely to be software engineers or financial workers as toilet cleaners.

i for one think some lazy Irish need a bit of competition

[This message has been edited by C B (edited 22-11-2000).]