Revalations, any Ideas????

popinfresh

I recently let curiosity get the better of me and I read the book of Revelations from start to finish. Personally. I find it strange that such a book is relatively forgotton about by most churches. In short, does anyone have any ideas as to what the hell it's talking about. At first glance, it seems to me to be prophesising the downfall of Israel. It also hints towards the creation of the Roman Empire, and it foretells the destruction of the city of Babylon. Regardless though of what I think, I reckon it makes a good discussion. Anybody, what are your views on this book (The last one in the bible )

JustHalf

popinfresh wrote:

I recently let curiosity get the better of me and I read the book of Revelations from start to finish. Personally. I find it strange that such a book is relatively forgotton about by most churches. In short, does anyone have any ideas as to what the hell it's talking about. At first glance, it seems to me to be prophesising the downfall of Israel. It also hints towards the creation of the Roman Empire, and it foretells the destruction of the city of Babylon. Regardless though of what I think, I reckon it makes a good discussion. Anybody, what are your views on this book (The last one in the bible )

My view is: tackling the text of Revelations is like bull-fighting with your bare hands. To paraphrase my sister, it is a "wreck-the-head".

popinfresh

My view is: tackling the text of Revelations is like bull-fighting with your bare hands. To paraphrase my sister, it is a "wreck-the-head".

I assumed the same myself. But people tend to ignore the first few lines.

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants...

This was written in 90ad (?ish) and it states clearly

...what must soon take place

Which made me think of the revelations in a new light. Maybe the prophesies of the horse-men etc have all ready taken place not long after the bible times. It's just an idea. I'm interested to see ideas other people have (regardless of how ludicrous they may seem:p)

Bass.exe

Hehe, good old Revelations.
It's all fairly generic, so that almost any time period can be construed as the "end-of-days". I like the bit about "the Beast"... in fact, I reckon I know who "the Beast" is. It's not a person. It's a company... Microsoft. Stay with me for a second - Revelation states the following:
Six will rise up and follow the Beast, and they will rule the Earth for 1 hour.
Hmm, could this be... dot com companies??
All who would do business must wear the mark of the Beast on their forehead or right wrist.
OMG, it's already come true!! Almost all who do any business are using a Microsoft product... Dun-Dun-Dunnn!!!!
I'm sure there is more, but the Bible is all the way in the other room... I can't be bothered to go get it.

Excelsior

Its the hardest book in the Bible. Martin Luther wrote a commentary on every book except Revelation because he was too unsure of himself.

It isn't the fall of Jerusalem that is being prophesied since that happened in 72AD. It isn't the creation of the Rome since they were around for easily 500 years by the time John tripped out on Patmos.

Here is something to think about when reading Revelation. CS Lewis wrote that he understands Christmas and the coming of Christ as an invasion of occupied territory- a liberation campaign by God to free us from the rule of evil. Now read Revelation as the spiritual account of Easter. Some chapters still reference Christmas, some still reference "End Times" (how I hate that term) but the theme running through the book is basically that serious crap went down when Jesus went up on the cross.

Other than that I would advise the use of Commentaries in the study of the book because it is amazingly difficult.

Excelsior

In terms of "soon take place", remember that the Christian God, if He exists, is outside of time. There is no way for humans to talk about events without placing them in time. So all references to time in Revelation may be totally screwy because chronology doesn't have to apply where John was meant to have been taken.

Another way of looking at it is that compared to the life of humanity as a whole or Earth or the universe, it has been but a blink since Christ lived. The soon take place reference only makes sense if you can give the word "soon" a definition.

popinfresh

Still though, the book was written for the first century christians, and it said that these things will shortly take place. Perhaps the falling of "Babylon The Great" wasn't a metaphor. Perhaps it was simply predicting the falling of Babylon the city....
(Bear that in mind and reading it again seems to click)
And I think that this "kingdom" was actually predicting the Holy Roman Empire. We know that christians went from being burnt on the stakes and persecuted, to some of the most powerful and respected people in Rome. Wheras the jews who didn't convert to christianity got fcuked over.

SkepticOne

popinfresh wrote:

Still though, the book was written for the first century christians, and it said that these things will shortly take place. Perhaps the falling of "Babylon The Great" wasn't a metaphor. Perhaps it was simply predicting the falling of Babylon the city....
(Bear that in mind and reading it again seems to click)

I thought Babylon had long since ceased to be a major city. I'd be inclined to believe that it had a symbolic meaning.

popinfresh

Babylon was not important becuause it was a powerful city, rather because it stood for everything unholy in the eyes of the Israelites. Prostitutes, false gods and the lot. The city of Babylon became uninhabitable and hence deserted around 400ad (ish, i'm not sure of the exact date). I beleive that the mention of Babylon in Revelations is a reference to jerimiah who prophesised that Babylon would be completely desproyed, something like "there will not be a stone left standing on a stone" or something. Forgive me I'm going by memory here. At the
time Revelations was written it was a lively city.

neuro-praxis

Quick note: in my experience of church the book of Revelation is not ignored at all. We regularly use verses partcularly from chapter 4 in our worship at my church. It is rarely preached on, however, because it's so dense and difficult. The apolocaplyptic language is so beautiful - and the imagery of God is glorious - but finding its relevance in terms of teaching is a challenge that only a gifted few are up to.

I'd back Excelsior here and encourage you to track down some commentaries, rather than getting reading dodgy stuff online.

popinfresh

My ideas on Babylon are my own.. In fact I don't know if it's been said before, but I came to the conclusion myself that revelations predicted stuff that happened years ago.. Still though, commentaries eh...

Talliesin

The political situation it condemns was pretty much gone after the fallout of the Battle of Milvian Bridge (which arguably proves that it was right in saying that said situation would pass).

cchacko

http://www.geocities.com/cinu_chacko/cinu/babylon.html

Run_to_da_hills

popinfresh wrote:

My ideas on Babylon are my own.. In fact I don't know if it's been said before, but I came to the conclusion myself that revelations predicted stuff that happened years ago.. Still though, commentaries eh...

I believe 666 and the fall of "mystery" Babylon has yet to come.

BrianCalgary

From what I know, there have been four different categories of interpretation on revelation over the years.

Two of which are; It happened in AD72 and John is reporting the spiritual aspect of the event, Correct me if I'm wrong on this interpretation.

Another is that the events are yet to happen. This is where I sit.

There are parts of the book that are current to johns time: the letters to the 7 churches are one, and also a good measure of how your own church is doing.

There is history, the fall of Satan.

And future, the judgement and Christs reign.

I think that all the disasters are yet to come. The reason for it is that man has rejected God. God steps away and just allows things in nature to take their course. He has protected us from Satan and his demons for now, but as we reject God and welcome the demons into our lives and homes Revelation tells of the impending disaster.

cchacko

hi the link has changed to

http://www.lordblessthee.com/cinu/babylon.html

santing

There is a good outline of Revelation posted at
http://bible.org/seriespage/revelation-introduction-argument-and-outline

I like the book, and think I have a good understanding of it...