Middle East on the brink of all-out war?

TwoShedsJackson

The region may soon be involved in another full scale war - to some extent the conflict in the region reminds me of the North, as long as human beings remain totally intransigent (i.e. forever) these situations will continue.

The Palestinians are a nation which lynches defenceless people, shows off the blood on their hands and mutilates the corpses. They send their children to the battle zone to be killed by crossfire and be victimised.
Where is the world? Why does it sit quiet? Why is Israel criticised for defending its citizens? What are we expected to do? Sit back and wait to be lynched too?
Yaron Cohen, Jerusalem, Israel

My years in Tel Aviv as a Russian Jew have been for the wrong reason. I came seeking a homeland, as the Russians wouldn't let me feel welcome in theirs. I quickly realised that the Palestinians are treated in the same way that we, Jews, were and are treated throughout the rest of the world.
I have heard the propaganda that my country pollutes the masses with. I have seen the atrocities that go unmentioned. I have known Palestinian prisoners and their families who have been tortured into confessing crimes they did not commit, all so that I can live "peacefully" with an Uzi slung across my shoulder.
I am ashamed to say that my people raped the Palestinians in '47 and stole their land in '48, relentlessly, with the support of the US and the UK. The Palestinians, in fact, are willing to tolerate our presence, despite all this, but the more they allow, the further my greedy government pushes. It is no wonder their frustration has turned to an "at any cost" protest.
To my country I say this: You have done so well to convince me and the world that this is our land, a Jewish land. You failed to admit your violation of international law in doing so. We have overlooked international law, but we must now answer to moral law.
Yacov, Tel Aviv, Israel

One group of people fight with stones, and one machine gun per group, the other group, is armed with the latest military technology, yet this crisis is viewed as a balanced affair. Please tell me where this world is heading towards. There is no excuse for the amount of Palestinian deaths. NONE.
Ziad Chami, Beirut, Lebanon

I have seen a suggestion that we can stop the violence by "withdrawing". If I may ask where to exactly are we supposed to withdraw to - back to Europe where they are still burning synagogues after trying to annihilate us or maybe all of the Arab-loving Europeans whose comments I've read will be more than happy to see us commit mass suicide by. We tested the peace option - it is an obvious disaster so we'll just have to try the other options at our disposal (obviously mass suicide not being one).
And as for all of you being shocked at us valuing our lives more than lives of our enemies - you would do the same if 500,000,000 murderous fanatics were screaming for your blood.
Albert Cohen, Israel

People have suffered enough and they want peace, but what is going on is not fair peace. It is biased to Israel because it will only give them what they don't own and Muslims are losing for sure.
STOP PRETENDING THAT ISREALIS ARE DEFENDING THEMSELVES. They got no right in Palestine. For what Palestinians did to the Israeli soldiers, what did you expect? And why are you talking about two soldiers with guns and not considering more than a hundred civilians?
Majed A. Sahli, Saudi Arabia

emails taken from http://news.bbc.co.uk/

Hobbes

I was chatting to a jewish girl over here, it was quite scary listening to the conversation.

She was explaining that some years back the Jewish community figured that in a year or two the Palestinians would have enough people to control the goverment by democratic vote so they moved them all out to thier own land.

Maybe I'm missing something but I think that's very wrong.

You hear about the 2 soliders killed by angry mobs but you have to ask yourself what made them angry in the first case? They didn't just wake up and go "ooh lets kill someone". Lastly I don't know how you can justify airstrikes for punishment of the murder of two people.

TwoShedsJackson

They don't have to justify it - if they just let two of their soldiers be lynched without displaying some sort of reaction then the whole region would have erupted by now.

Manach

My view, no dramatic clash of armies but just a long ugly low level conflict between the two sides.
Both groups believe themselves right,
Israel defending itself, but leaving scores of civilians dead.
Palestine trying to assert itself, but using mob rule to do so.
While America caught up in it's own internal politcs.
I think PJ O'Rourke termed the area "God's own Monkey House"
My view best hope might lie with Barak to get
the situation under a bit of control, for he seems the rarest of breeds, a blunt/honest politican.

bubbles

I'm not fully up to date with the goings on in israel, but I think the helicopter attacks where a bot iver the top.

Am I wrong in thinking that israel has nuke weapons ? Things can get worse very easily...

Draco

Originally posted by Castor Troy:
They don't have to justify it - if they just let two of their soldiers be lynched without displaying some sort of reaction then the whole region would have erupted by now.

Yes they needed to react, but missile attacks? Jesus, that's a little far.

I find it very hard to be sympatethic to the Jewish people when they seem to acting like complete pr1cks. Then again, I don't know the full story, so mabye they are justified.

Draco

[This message has been edited by Draco (edited 16-10-2000).]

Excelsior

well, i support the state of israel but they have gone too far.
i think on saturday the count was 42 palestinan CHILDREN had been killed since this escalation began.
that is murder.
we shouldn't support it.

Shinji

Hmm, is there any particular reason why you "support the state of israel"?

I mean, lets not beat around the bush here; American propaganda aside, it's the Israelis who are the agressors in the middle east, in general. It is they who occupy Palestinian land; it is they who are oppressing the (much smaller) nation of Palestine; it is they who, aided and abetted by the USA, have broken all their previous treaties with the Palestinians.

Understandably, the Palestinians are somewhat upset about this. It's been going on for 50 years after all, and Ehud Barak is one of the most hardline Israeli leaders to emerge during that time. This doesn't excuse Palestinian violence; but it certainly condemns Israeli overreaction.

Ja,
Rob

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by Canaboid:
In 1946-49 Isreal (armed and supported by the US) invaded Palestine, killing the populations of entire villages and razing them to the ground.

Israel was founded in 1948, and upon that foundation, the five neighbouring Arab countries invaded simultaneously, forcing the Israelis to fight a War of Independance.

They were in no way armed or supported by the US at that time, as opposed to now, and atrocities were regularly carried out by both sides.

Excelsior

canaboid, your support is noted.
and i have a pretty encyclopedic knowledge of this situation. it is my belief that support for israel is a good thing, but they have gone too far in their murder of kids.
they sniped weapons carrying palestianians who were hiding in the stone throwing crowds. this is a little less illegal, if no less distressing.

Canaboid

Excel, once again your stance is mind boggling. Are you familiar with the history of the region and what has been visited on the palestinian people. They have been invaded by an aggressor with the full backing of the united states. In 1946-49 Isreal (armed and supported by the US) invaded Palestine, killing the populations of entire villages and razing them to the ground. Suppose they decided that Ireland was their spiritual homeland (because it said so in their holy book, ffs) would you still support them. I doubt it. I'm starting to think you say these things just to stir.

Canaboid

Incidently, the Israelies have begun to snipe palestinian protesters from safe distances using silencers and "hollow tipped rounds". These munitions as far as I knew were outlawed by the UN as they are designed to shred internally leaving little chance of survival from a direct hit.
But sure no bother to the Israelies.

C B

Originally posted by Excelsior:

and i have a pretty encyclopedic knowledge of this situation.

Obviously it's time to buy a more up to date encyclopedia (or maybe subscribe to an online one). To support either side in this situation is laughable. Both sets of "leaders" are barbarians prolonging a war rather than dealing with any of the real issues which face people living in the region. It's all a bit like 1984 really.

Originally posted by Shinji:


Ehud Barak is one of the most hardline Israeli leaders to emerge

While on the surface this may appear to be true it is a little more complex than that. You have to examine the political realities in which this man is operating. He is the leader of a minority coalition and as such cannot do anything which the opposition (Likud) could use against him. Like Trimble in the North he has to make the right noises to hardliners because the alternative is a truly hardline replacement.

Excelsior

*swipe*

[This message has been edited by Excelsior (edited 25-10-2000).]

Shinji

Well quite; Barak is a twonk, but the alternative is probably worse; Likud are the Israeli equivalent of the DUP. It's an unfortunate situation - there aren't really any Israeli moderates, because their whole state is founded on the basis of extremism.

"Israel was founded in 1948, and upon that foundation, the five neighbouring Arab countries invaded simultaneously, forcing the Israelis to fight a War of Independance."

Yes, well, if a stack of people arrived on your front door and threw you out on the street claiming that they had a right to your house because it's written in a 4000-year-old book, you'd be pretty f*cking upset too.

ja,
Rob

Yossarian

Palestine is a former British colony. A lot of jewish refugees and holocost survivors emigrated to Palestine after the second world war. Britian had previously agreed to the formation of a jewish state in palestine, i think this was during or after the first world war. The british solution to honouring this agrement and keeping the arabs happy was to partition Palestine into a jewish and a Arab state. This partitioning came into effect in 1948. When this happened the new state of Isreal was attacked by its 5 neighbouring Arab states, including Palestine.

I dont see how there state is founded on extremism?

"Yes, well, if a stack of people arrived on your front door and threw you out on the street claiming that they had a right to your house because it's written in a 4000-year-old book, you'd be pretty f*cking upset too."
I would hardly say the isreali state is led
by scripture..

Hollow point ammunition is not illegal. It is prohibited from use during a full scale war by the Geneva convention (or the Hague?).
However it is quite legal to use them against anyone else. A lot of police forces in western countries use them i believe.

Stephen.

amp

The bullied becomes the bully.

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LegacyUser

There was a somewhat insightful programme on BBC2 earlier this evening . It contained interviews with former prisoners of the Iam ( prolly spelt wrong ) prison . An Israeli prison which interned people 'suspected' of plotting against the state of Israel.
Stories of Israeli officers helping the SLA in torturing the prisoners, electric shock to the genetils, beatings and the likes...
And a UN post within earshot of the prison grounds. But under UN mandate, they could not intervene .
It has since been closed and the prisoners set free after the withdrawl during the summer methinks.