Iarnród Éireann and Tara Street re-development

thejollyrodger

Does anyone know what are the plans for Tara Street ?
Development was meant to start in September 2004 but the project was shelved

BrianD

I thought it was going ahead. Though they did make a big deal about the fact that it would be "metro enabled" should a metro line be routed underneath it. Just shows how many different plans there are about the place for various rail lines!

Fine building though, hope it gets built! Mind you DCC haven't been too lucky in getting tenants in their block further up Tara St.

thejollyrodger

I heard it was meant to start back in September of this year and open in 2006 but there is no word AFAIK. They chopped two floors off the top of the building (but the glass bit isnt being changed) and looks something like above.

no word about this metro so everything could yet be binned

BrianD

The high rise building down at Heuston got the chop this morning thanks to a Sinn Fein sponsored motion. Let's all live in the past eh!

thejollyrodger

Typical of Sinn Fein !

BrianD, do you know when the Tara Street will begin construction and when it will be completed ?

monument

BrianD wrote:

The high rise building down at Heuston got the chop this morning thanks to a Sinn Fein sponsored motion. Let's all live in the past eh!

You have to be taking the piss? Hearing that the PP was approved for that was the first sign Dublin was going in the right direction.

Victor

Dublin is over-provided for in offices, there is no pressing need to build the building *now*. I imagine that IR will want to finish the DART improvements before starting on this.

sliabh

Victor wrote:

Dublin is over-provided for in offices, there is no pressing need to build the building *now*. I imagine that IR will want to finish the DART improvements before starting on this.

I was sitting beside a property developer on a flight back into Dublin a few months ago and he said as much. There is a glut of space, certainly outside the city centre. Just looking at Sandyford there are large numbers of empty buildings. This guy said he was concentrating on modern buildings in the city centre (ironically he owned the building that my employers work out of)

The pressing need in Dublin is for housing, and I would be fine with high rise appartment buildings (insert usual disclaimers here about suitability for those who can afford proper maintenance, good public transport links etc)

thejollyrodger

They could do something imaginative and instead put in several floors of apartments

BrianD

While high rise is a lttle off topic for this board, there seems to be a high level of resistance to it by our councillors which makes me suspicious. We need to see higher density development within the metropolitan area to justify alot of our infrastructure spend and to make it more economical. Higher density doesn't have to mean high rise buildings nor do high rise buildings mean another Ballymun. The development down at Heuston made a lot of sense as it is out of the "Georgian city centre" and close to a number of transport links.

It's disgraceful that in order to increase density within the Dublin area we are building 2 storey houses on green areas instead of higher buildings elsewhere and saving the essential green zones.

Metrobest

BrianD wrote:

While high rise is a lttle off topic for this board, there seems to be a high level of resistance to it by our councillors which makes me suspicious. We need to see higher density development within the metropolitan area to justify alot of our infrastructure spend and to make it more economical. Higher density doesn't have to mean high rise buildings nor do high rise buildings mean another Ballymun. The development down at Heuston made a lot of sense as it is out of the "Georgian city centre" and close to a number of transport links.

It's disgraceful that in order to increase density within the Dublin area we are building 2 storey houses on green areas instead of higher buildings elsewhere and saving the essential green zones.

I think the Phoenix Park is the most wasted housing resource in Dublin. It's far too big. Huge swathes of is never get used. Something should be done.

A high-density development could easily be built on a section of the Park: served by a LUAS extension.

sliabh

Metrobest wrote:

I think the Phoenix Park is the most wasted housing resource in Dublin. It's far too big. Huge swathes of is never get used. Something should be done.

Please tell me you forgot the sarcasm smiley?

murphaph

I don't think any sarcasm was intended, unfortunately.

A Dub in Glasgo

High rise is fine if you deal with it properly. I grew up in one of the spine blocks in Ballymun and if there was ever a bible in how not to deal with highrise, Dublin Corporation wrote it for Ballymun.

As for the tower block at Heuston: my understanding is this was approved by DCC. I can find no site that is reporting a council rejection

Phoenix Park is an asset to Dublin and should only be developed for recreational purposes

Metrobest

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

High rise is fine if you deal with it properly. I grew up in one of the spine blocks in Ballymun and if there was ever a bible in how not to deal with highrise, Dublin Corporation wrote it for Ballymun.

As for the tower block at Heuston: my understanding is this was approved by DCC. I can find no site that is reporting a council rejection

Phoenix Park is an asset to Dublin and should only be developed for recreational purposes

Which of us can honestly say we've seen every bit of the Phoenix Park? Nobody can. And would anyone want to? Of course not. The park is too massive. That's proven by the fact it can hold hundreds of thousands during pop concerts. I've often heard the boast that the Phoenix Park is the "largest metropolitan park in Europe" - my reaction is, gee, that's great.. But it's also the most underused piece of city land on the planet. The Park is to big and needs to down-size. I'm not saying chop it up and rebuild Ballymun - I'm saying take a small section of the park and do something intelligent with it.

Dublin is a relatively small city. It does not need a park the size of the Phoenix Park. At present the park is used by walkers, car-drivers, taxis, deer and prostitutes. There is just one cycle track. Commuters use it to frighten the deer on Chesterfield Avenue. Huge sections of the park are never used. Parts of it are positively desolate: this is where one of those child-abusing priests used to take his victims, according to Prime Time.

So while parts of the park are as empty as the Arizona deset, here we are crying out for high-density development in Dublin and nowhere to build it. Semi-detached houses are being built in Enfield while usused sections of the Pheonix Park sit there, being used by nobody except for sinister purposes.

The government should take a small section of the park (20% of the existing size) , do a Spencer-Dock style development on it and make an extension of the Tallaght LUAS line for sustainable transport options.

People may like the IDEA of having this mega-massive park in Dublin, but do they actually bother using it? NO.

sliabh

Metrobest wrote:

The government should take a small section of the park (20% of the existing size) , do a Spencer-Dock style development on it and make an extension of the Tallaght LUAS line for sustainable transport options.

and for an encore Central Park in New York can be built on to provide low cost housing for New Yorkers priced out of the local market. Similarly for St James Park in London, the Royal Palace in Toyko etc. etc.

Would you burn the mona lisa to keep warm as well perhaps?

silverside

i have run and cycled around most corners of the phoenix park. What is great about it is that parts of it are so unspoilt.

There is lots of brownfield areas available for development inside or close to the m50 (e.g. between finglas and blanchardstown, around cork street, along the canals, that new development around baldoyle) without building on the park. it's a slippery slope to allow building on any green belt.

what I do see happening though is the likes of clonliffe college being converted to apartments, this has already happened with various religious buildings.

A Dub in Glasgo

The planning authorities have caused the ridiculous situation where Dublin is now akin to a US type urban sprawl. Taking the Phoenix Park and building flats/apartments will not solve this urban sprawl and you will lose a city asset.

Flukey

What they really should be doing is encouraging more business and people to set up outside of Dublin in other parts of Ireland altogether. The infrastructure is going in, which helps, but there is a lot to be done. They should not be decentralising whole government departments, maybe just a few offices that are capable of functioning away from the department HQ. Ireland needs more regional development. That will help Dublin more than any solutions within the city. A better public transport system into and within the city can help solve the local problems, but getting more people to live and work in other areas of Ireland would do more for Dublin than anything. People are going on about the Phoenix Park being under utilised, when what is worse is that there are huge swathes of Ireland where few people live and work. A bit of development and those places could be brought on. Leave Phoenix Park alone and develop other parts of Ireland.

Metrobest

sliabh wrote:

and for an encore Central Park in New York can be built on to provide low cost housing for New Yorkers priced out of the local market. Similarly for St James Park in London, the Royal Palace in Toyko etc. etc.

Would you burn the mona lisa to keep warm as well perhaps?

You seem to think I'm a total philistine! I'm not. I love the green air as much as the next person. But I'm practical. And I think the Phoenix Park is too large and has spawned all sorts of sinister activities - it's a no-go area at night.

I'm not familiar with the parks of New York or London. I would imagine they are smaller than the Phoenix and have more to offer in terms of ammenities. In Holland the Vondelpark is loved by Amsterdammers and tourists alike. I use it as a cycle route all the time. Nothing more pleasant. Anyone who's been in it will tell you why: it's a vibrant park, full of ammenities, and it's plenty big (though much smaller than the Phoenix Park)

Since you're familiar with Munich I'm sure you know the Englischer Garten, a lovely park indeed, full of ammenities, and nicely-sized. I've even seen people surfing there! Don't you think the Phoenix Park would be nicer if it were a little bit smaller; and with more ammenities? I mean, apart from people who live beside it, the rest of Dublin doesn't even use it.

I'm not talking about ripping out the heart and soul of the park; rather, I'm talking about creating within a small corner of it a positive, sustainable development close by the city. At present, the only people who get benefit out of the full geography of the Park are the commuters from the mafia mansions of Castleknock, the deer, and the rent boys.

sliabh

Metrobest wrote:

You seem to think I'm a total philistine! I'm not. I love the green air as much as the next person. But I'm practical. And I think the Phoenix Park is too large and has spawned all sorts of sinister activities - it's a no-go area at night.

It that was true then the answer is policing and not development.

One of the great things about the Pheonix park is it's size. You can forget that you are in the city while walkling through it. Not everyone uses it to it's best advantage but a lot of people do. I live no where near it, but I use it for kite flying, cycling and love walking around the quiter parts.

I love the idea that you can see deer there. It's very size is what is great, because in a crowded city you can find quiet spots.

Putting any sort of development would ruin this and would be a tragic loss. Especially with the city forecast to grow to over 2 million people by 2040 the importance of the pheonix park as an oasis within the city will only grow.

The only development the park needs is better links to allow everyone from the rest of the city access to it. I am fortunate to live near the No. 10 bus but not everyone is so lucky.

Metrobest wrote:

Don't you think the Phoenix Park would be nicer if it were a little bit smaller; and with more ammenities? I mean, apart from people who live beside it, the rest of Dublin doesn't even use it.

To make it smaller would be a massively retrograde step. That land would never be recovered. And there is nothing wrong with the size of the park. As for amenities, I think park is well served, it has a zoo, walking and cycling paths, playing fields, nature trails, monuments, ornamental gardens, Farmleigh, horse riding and the Aras. Other than further transport links what I would add is some cafes, and possibly a small exhibition centre.

I am pretty familiar with the Englischer Garten here in Munich and I think the Pheonix park compares well. Indeed it's size helps make it better as it never feels as crowded and busy as the Munich parks.