Advice..

impr0v

I'm looking at changing my car, which is:



Saab 93, 1.8t (150bhp), 2003, 21k miles

and am very close to buying this:



Evo VII, 2.0t (276bhp, 0-60 in just over 5 seconds, limited to 157mph), 2001, 7k miles

They are looking for 15k with my own, which is laughable, I plan on buying it if i can get them down to 7k.

Even if i do achieve this price, it makes no financial sense whatsoever to buy the car. My insurance is up for renewal in July and it will cost me an extra 400 to insure it until then, and 4k for the renewal (triple my existing premium), and that's with 5 yrs no claims (26 y.o.). I would probably have difficulty trading it in or getting rid of it in the future, because few people in the car's target market can afford to insure it in this country. It also gets under 25 miles to the gallon (i'm doing <10k miles a year atm though), and mechanically will cost a lot to service. I'd expect the clutch and brakes to need doing by 20k miles or so. It also needs new tyres, though this isn't a big negative because my own does too, and if i did buy it I'd probably be putting 18" wheels on it and would obviously need new rubber to go along with these anyway. In terms of prestige, I work for myself at the moment so image is relatively important and i'm losing the executive look for the boy racer look which isn't the greatest thing for winning instant kudos when driving into a potential client's car park for the first time. To anyone who doesn't know what it is, it's just another family saloon with a huge spoiler on it.

On the plus side, it's an Evo, and when I was broke as fux in college I had a poster of an Evo IV on the wall and promised myself i'd get one as soon as I could afford it. I took the car for a drive today and was pleasantly surprised with both the interior and its behaviour in normal traffic. It obviously looks pretty basic inside, but not as shabby as pictures which I had seen had led me to believe. The ride is as rigid as you'd expect, but vibration from the road surface again wasn't as bad as I had expected having read reviews of the car. The pictures of the exterior don't do it justice either, it looks positively dangerous in the flesh, with the firepower to back it up. It goes like a gunshot out of second and third, pure kick-in-the-back acceleration, but can also contain itself in traffic. The clutch is heavy enough to work up leg muscles if you were sitting in a 10 mile tailback, but again, isn't all that bad.

So, should I or shouldn't I? I'd plan on keeping the car for one and a half to two years and then going sensible again.

Also, would there be problems getting the car through an NCT in terms of emissions? It's a northern car and hasn't actullay been registered here or in the north as yet. It's been sitting in their forecourt and a donegal one and used for publicity during the circuit of Ireland (the VRT which will be about 10k is included in their price).

garthv

Even if i do achieve this price, it makes no financial sense whatsoever to buy the car. My insurance is up for renewal in July and it will cost me an extra 400 to insure it until then, and 4k for the renewal (triple my existing premium), and that's with 5 yrs no claims (26 y.o.). I would probably have difficulty trading it in or getting rid of it in the future, because few people in the car's target market can afford to insure it in this country. It also gets under 25 miles to the gallon (i'm doing <10k miles a year atm though), and mechanically will cost a lot to service. I'd expect the clutch and brakes to need doing by 20k miles or so. It also needs new tyres, though this isn't a big negative because my own does too, and if i did buy it I'd probably be putting 18" wheels on it and would obviously need new rubber to go along with these anyway

Thats the bads points.

On the plus side, it's an Evo, and when I was broke as fux in college I had a poster of an Evo IV on the wall and promised myself i'd get one as soon as I could afford it.

Thats the good points

Imho the good points faaaarrrrrr outweigh the bad,so what if its not a good choice moneywise,you'll be happy and plus you'll be driving the car of your dreams.

Silvera

I would view it as a 'downmarket move' to go from the Saab to the Evo.

And it wouldn't help your business image either, unless you actually want a 'boy racer/yobbo/poser' image

ando

the evo is not a boy racer car

Canis Lupus

ando wrote:

the evo is not a boy racer car

Agrees..... A boy racer is a knob in a civic that has a spoiler and tires so large it can't even make it around a roundabout.

An evo is the genuine article.... The bloke in me would tell u to go for it if u can afford it. **** it's only for a year or so and ya get old quickly enough

D!ve^Bomb!

just please please get rid of that fúckin spoiler... PLEASE!!!

Silvera

The general public would view it as a 'boy racer car'.

(There are also many 'souped up' standard Lancers/Imprezas about).

ando

newband wrote:

just please please get rid of that fúckin spoiler... PLEASE!!!

but its the real deal and standard on the evo. If he takes it off he's gona lose aero if he's doing track days and such

Silvera wrote:

The general public would view it as a 'boy racer car'.

yea but if they seen the price tag they'd soon realise it's not :rolleyes:

rander00

Would the knob that said "lose the spoiler" please bow down in shame.

D!ve^Bomb!

spoliers, or at least spoilers of that size, are for complete muppets in their muppetmobiles.. and the price tag makes no difference to me.. spoilers as loud as that sucketh a$$!

Nuttzz

personally i think the sabb looks nicer! honestly i would wait til you are 30, your insurance will drop like a stone and you can drive whatever the funk you fancy.

ando

newband wrote:

spoliers, or at least spoilers of that size, are for complete muppets in their muppetmobiles..

:rolleyes: your hatred towards boy racers is blinding you

D!ve^Bomb!

let me guess, your car has a 6ft spoiler and big yellow illuminous speed strip?:rolleyes:

unkel

impr0v wrote:

I had a poster of an Evo IV on the wall and promised myself i'd get one as soon as I could afford it

Time for some self-analysis here methinks

You bought the Saab new or nearly new recently. For the money you spent, you could have got yourself a good condition second hand Evo. Why didn't you?

By buying the Saab, you made a certain statement. It's classy, stylish and different looking, but underneath, it's just an Opel Vectra really

impr0v wrote:

They are looking for 15k with my own, which is laughable, I plan on buying it if i can get them down to 7k

I presume that includes VRT and registration? You sure you can talk them down that much?

As you say, the Evo is gonna cost you a fortune to own over the next few years. What are you going to use it for? If you're dedicated to racing / rallying it might be worth your while as the Evo is a superbly performing wild animal of a car

Having said that, it is also as ugly as even a Japanese car can get, with its horrible boy racer rear spoiler. Did I mention that white is the worst colour a car can be?

Interceptor

Impr0v, apart from the appalling trade-in being offered, I would say you should go for it. The Evo is no more a boy-racer car than a Fiat coupe turbo - ie not. Your mileage is low enough to make the Evo vaguely useable and affordable but you will notice it guzzle super unleaded (it has a specific diet) at an awful rate if you press the 'crazy' pedal too hard.

You are wrong about having trouble selling it - it will find a ready market provided you look after it. If you are in any doubt, put a dummy ad in the Buy and Sell to gauge interest - I do this sometimes when trying to value something unusual.

The Saab doesn't merit comparison with the Mitsi - don't even try. If you need the Evo to feed your soul then do it now, take the hit and relax in the knowledge that the extra adreniline in your system will make up for the lack of money in your pocket.

As a note of caution, I drove an Evo VII on the coast road to Roundstone and had to stop to throw up due the ride being so harsh - I'm not normally carsick but I don't think they have much in the line of suspension travel... The seat bolsters are for narrow people, my sides were uncomfy and the interior is sparse and noisy.

Do it, do it now before you have other resposibilities which prevent it.

'c

Tommy Vercetti

All I would say to you is that if you can afford to run this car without going bankrupt, then get it asap. Who cares what anyone else thinks? Anyone who knows anything about cars will bow down and worship you. If there was a Saab in front of me, I'd be in danger of falling asleep. If it was an Evo, I'd have my head out the sunroof to get a closer view (and earful). Get it. Now.
Only negative thing I could possibly add is that I prefer the looks of an Evo VI which you could probably get a straight swap for with the Saab, but that's a trivial matter. Good luck.

Tommy Vercetti

impr0v wrote:

It also gets under 25 miles to the gallon (i'm doing <10k miles a year atm though)

25 is wishful thinking, try half that and you're just about there, and 97ron ain't cheap. Get it anyway.

Interceptor

Oh I forgot - your Saab is just the b4stard cousin of the opel vectra and should be drowned in a vat of dog vomit.

What colour is the Evo - or do the only make them in silver? Jaysus they are quick and would put a horn on a dead man.

DO IT - I'll drive you up to collect it....

'c

Tommy Vercetti

interceptor wrote:

DO IT - I'll drive you up to collect it....

He might be tired after that so I'll volunteer to drive it home for him

impr0v

Heh, some great replies.

I'll attempt to answer some of the queries:

Nuttzz wrote:

i would wait til you are 30, your insurance will drop like a stone and you can drive whatever the funk you fancy.

These cars are insurance nightmares at pretty much any age. As 'ceptor hints at in one of his later points the chances are that at 30 I'll have more important matters to spend money on. There's also the fact that I would look like I was going through a mid-life crisis getting one at 30. I appreciate your point though.

Newband wrote:

just please please get rid of that fúckin spoiler... PLEASE!!!

Blasphemer. In stark contrast to 90% of the spoilers you see, that one actually serves a purpose. It's also the model for quite a lot of the misguided spoilers fitted to bog standard motors.

Silvera wrote:

The general public would view it as a 'boy racer car'.

I agree, they would.

unkle wrote:

You bought the Saab new or nearly new recently. For the money you spent, you could have got yourself a good condition second hand Evo. Why didn't you?

I bought it new 18 months ago. I would have found it very difficult to even get an insurace quote on the car, plus my mileage and work situation at the time would have made it pretty much unfeasible.

unkle wrote:

I presume that includes VRT and registration? You sure you can talk them down that much?

Yeah, they are included. I'll also be looking to get a commitment from them to look after the first service, and to sort out any issue from arises from an NCT, though given the age and low mileage I wouldn't expect any issues. In terms of talking them down that much, no, I'm not sure. I was using 7 as an arbitrary figure to tell myself I'd get it if I could talk them down to that. I would be fairly confident of getting it down to 9, definitely. They have made it clear that it's something they are having difficulty shifting and are willing to negotiate on. The salesman brought the car 40 miles for me to testdrive, on a saturday close to the end of the year when there were only two of them looking after the forecourt.

I'll take up that Saab/Vectra argument with you another day.

interceptor wrote:

As a note of caution, I drove an Evo VII on the coast road to Roundstone and had to stop to throw up due the ride being so harsh - I'm not normally carsick but I don't think they have much in the line of suspension travel... The seat bolsters are for narrow people, my sides were uncomfy and the interior is sparse and noisy.

Yeah, the seats were built for slender Japanese, and I realise it's not going to be overly comfortable on any kind of long distance trip, or medium distance on poor roads.

interceptor wrote:

What colour is the Evo - or do the only make them in silver?

It's white, that's the actual car in the picture. Not the easiest to keep clean but the all the other cars on the market seem to be the same safe silver and I think it looks a lot better in white, once it's kept fairly clean.

Tommy Vercetti wrote:

Only negative thing I could possibly add is that I prefer the looks of an Evo VI which you could probably get a straight swap for with the Saab

VI > VII > VIII in terms of aggressive looks, but a VI would be that much older and would make the boy racer image worse.


Anyway after some alcohol assisted consideration of the matter last night, I'm probably going to go for it, if the price is reasonable. 'ceptor, you referred to the appalling trade in on offer, at what point would you consider the price to be approaching reasonable levels?

djeclips

Well as they say if you can afford it go for it!!
The car will have to be serviced evry 4.5k miles so that adds up to about 2 a year for you,fuel is the biggest problem,you have to use 97ron (the expensive stuff) since you're self employed you can write that off against tax i guess,but the problem would be geting it.Normal 95 ron will cause your engine to det(think thats what they call it) you can use octane booster but I don't think too kindly of the long term effects. www.lancerregister.com is a site you should look at,huge knowledge base and a good search facility,it is english based but has a few Irish members that might be able to give you an idea.
My only concern about what you said is that it was a promo for the circut of ireland,possibly got dogs abuse meaning the clutch might need doing already,then again it could be the total opposite and cared for like a baby.Ask the guys on lancerregister for any tell tale signs.
And finally to throw another option into the mix Evo Vii french blue Now with working link.

Interceptor

Sorry - the colour question was b-cos the pics won't open on my machine.

Re. trade in price, the Saab has a pretty straightforward depreciation curve and since it is only 18 months old I'd suggest selling privately - start with the auto pages in the Irish Times. Put a small deposit on the Evo and hold out for the best price you can get on the Saab.

The Saab/Vectra comparison was a cheap shot - they only share components of the floor-pan as do lots of GM cars. Their New Epsilon platform will be shared by lots of models. I take back the dog-vomit comment (I once had a 9000 CSE so am guilty of kettle-pot-blackage).

It will be expensive to run but your mileage is low and if you bring it to the North you can be sure it will get what it needs. It only leaves me to ask if you considered the Impreza - yeah I know they get bad press but in ALL of the back-to-back comparisons by independant testers the Subaru has come out tops by a tiny margin. They are more easily traded, look less aggressive and drive the same as the Evo. There are several specialists in Ireland who can point you right and look after your car too. Do you ever plan taking it around Mondello?

Finally, get good advice before putting 18" wheels on it - I think you might be asking for pain in your spine and wallet.

'c

Kersh

The boy racers will drive you mental, trying to race you and driving up your arse etc.
But, yes if I were you, go for it.

Nuttzz

impr0v wrote:

These cars are insurance nightmares at pretty much any age. As 'ceptor hints at in one of his later points the chances are that at 30 I'll have more important matters to spend money on. There's also the fact that I would look like I was going through a mid-life crisis getting one at 30. I appreciate your point though.

1.Think about it, when your 31, you will have 10 yeard NCB (hopefully) your insurance will drop like a stone, mine did.

2. 30 is not a mid life crisis age FFS!! birds in their 20s are still fair game!

seamus

I loved the Evo since Gran Turismo one. Twas always the best car, and savage when souped up. My mates dad also had one, and although it obviously wasn't done up, still a cool car.

The bloke in me also says go for it, but spray it black or red with cool graphics, and lower the spoiler by about 3 inches.
The realist in me says it's probably a bad move for an impulse buy

impr0v

After plenty of research (thanks djeclips for the register link) and some sustained questioning of the salesman it turns out that the car is an RS II version rather than the more common GSR. Not really a big deal as it only means that some of the creature comforts (the little there are) aren't on it. The Jap import RS II's have no ABS or AYC (active yaw control), though he says that this model definitely has ABS (I should really have found this stuff out before seeing it), so it would seem that it's a UK spec RS II, which has both.

However, just to complicate matters the speedo is in km/h, and all UK models allegedly had the speedo converted, as it's illegal to have a km/h clock on UK roads. It turns out that it is legal in NI, which is where this car came from, and Ralliart may have therefore not bothered with the conversion.

There is also a 112mph restrictor in place, which was usually removed at the time of metric -> imperial conversion, which the salesman knew about but neglected to tell me until I specfically asked about it. They aren't going to remove it, he said a main dealer would do it.

This sentence goes against the fact that he had presented his establishment as a place that deals regularly with these cars and knew their way around them. The car has to be serviced every 4500, and this one has not yet been serviced at 6,500 miles.

Also, and most importantly of all, when asked what type of fuel they use in it, he replied 'ordinary unleaded'. Am I right in thinking that ordinary unleaded here is about 95 RON? According to the comprehensive buyers guide it needs a minimum of 97 RON, preferably 98, or there will be significant engine trouble after a short length of time. The buyers guide advice states that one should walk away upon receiving this answer.

On the plus side, the side being soundly beaten at the moment, he's dropped 3k off the price and is offering a 1yr warranty....

djeclips

impr0v wrote:

On the plus side, the side being soundly beaten at the moment, he's dropped 3k off the price and is offering a 1yr warranty....

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T TOUCH IT!!!!!!! This car will probably end up going pop on you.3k off the price great but how much will it end up causing you. Once you hear ordinary unleaded run a mile,also it has to be serviced every 4500 miles or 6 months but on top of that it should have being serviced at 1000miles to put fully synthetic oil in (sorry if spelling is wrong).Just imagine all that crap going arround a 300bhp engine at the red line, whitch by the sound of the peeps selling it wouldn't suprise me, on the wrong old oil.

How old is the car?(remember 4500k or 6 months)What is the cash price?

impr0v

'01 with 6.5k miles on the clock. His cash price is about 37k, though we've been talking about the price plus trade only. I offered him 32 a few days back.

Any damage caused to the engine by missing the 4500 interval (i didn't ask about the 1k one) and the sub standard fuel will have been exacerbated by the fact that it has only had test pilots and no real owner as such. I'd imagine it has come close to the red line from cold on one or two occasions.

Yer, I'm about to walk at this point, unless he pulls it out of the fire tomorrow with some information he gets from the mechanics there. In fairness to this guy he sells their BMW some other guy usually deals with the Mitsubishi end.

djeclips

impr0v wrote:

Yer, I'm about to walk at this point

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH About to walk??? Sorry If I sound a bit strong but where do you live?Need to send the men in the white jackets.

Wouldn't matter If he pulls a Leprechaun out of his arse tomorrow with a pot of gold.

I'll tell you what I'll do.I'll Post this post as a link on lancerregister.com and see what they say by tomorrow b4 you go talking to delboy again .Post on lancerregister.com

Tommy Vercetti

Walk away, they aren't rare enough to justify taking such a risk.

impr0v

djeclips wrote:

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH About to walk??? Sorry If I sound a bit strong but where do you live?Need to send the men in the white jackets.

Wouldn't matter If he pulls a Leprechaun out of his arse tomorrow with a pot of gold.

I'll tell you what I'll do.I'll Post this post as a link on lancerregister.com and see what they say by tomorrow b4 you go talking to delboy again .Post on lancerregister.com

I had already posted there asking about the model spec.

djeclips

Sorry,only realised that now,Didn't mean to step on your heals.

Mat Hammond

Hi Mat from Brighton here.

The Evo will be a great car, but make sure you do not let the Saab go for silly money.

But once you get the keys in your hands get ready for some big bills.

Anything over 10,000 miles p.a is a nightmare...

Your insurance costs are stupid. I am 35 and pay £600.

I sold my FQ300 last Sunday and will miss it badly but even as a third car I recently had to have a new clutch, service and front pads and at the dealer that little lot would cost £1500.

Tip, buy a cheap second car...

You will love the performance!


Regards
MAT

Mat Hammond

Sorry, only just seen the extra info on page two of this item.

Walk away from this car!

Regards
MAT

unkel

Walk away!

As soon as I started to read your first post from today, I started screaming...

D!ve^Bomb!

Mat Hammond wrote:

Your insurance costs are stupid. I am 35 and pay £600.

god bless ya.. do you know what the average price for insurance is in Ireland?

Interceptor

newband wrote:

god bless ya.. do you know what the average price for insurance is in Ireland?

Oh not this old song. I'm 37 and fully comp on me Espace costs €435. Something has to make up for losing my hair and having to drive a plastic shed on wheels.

Impr0v, hold out for the right Evo, FMSH, AYC, and all the trimmings. Keep an eye to the specialist jap importers (see the autotrader) and sell the Saab as soon as you can. Buy a '96 1.3 anything to get you around and put the Saab money somewhere safe until the Evo of your dreams pops up. Try and blag a few spins to form an opinion of how it should feel. Let us know when you find it and we can all get a spin...

'c

impr0v

Sorry to keep harping on about this but.....

It now turns out that they had serviced the vehicle at least once, and it's using fully synthetic oil. He talked to Mitsi Ireland and they recommended a 4500 mile service interval only if semi-synthetic oil was used, and 9000 was perfectly adequate when fully synthetic was used. They also told him that 95 RON (i.e. normal unleaded) is perfectly fine to use in it. 98 will give extra performance, and it is up to the driver if they want to use it.

He reiterated that they will provide a one year warranty with it, and will not remove the limiter. He is now down another 2k as well...Another 3k and he'll be at the amount I offered originally.

IANOC

if the car has no service history dont even entertain yourself m8.
if it is a demo car and has been used round the rallying it will probably end in bad engine as you know they didnt drive it like a micra while at the rallies.as the car shouldnt have been brought passed 3000rpm for the first 1000 miles
if you want one that bad you should find one with one of the importers that would have been checked over when imported
hope this helps

Squirrel

get yourself a nice old shape 530i or 525i or if you want performance and can stretch to it an E55 or M5. you could also wait a few years and get an evo8

impr0v

With fully synthetic in it and one service in 6500 miles they can't have done much damage to it unless, as you say, they gave it hell in the first thousand miles or so. When I mentioned the demo for a rally, I meant they parked it up outside the hotel adjacent to the service area for the Circuit of Ireland and had decals stuck on it advertising the garage.

As above, once it has had one service and the proper oil in it since early on, it has sufficiently low mileage on the clock for very little damage, if any, to be done.

I would be concerned about the fuel type, but if Mitsubishi Ireland are saying 'ordinary unleaded' then again, 6.5k miles on ordinary unleaded isn't going to make it go pop. If I can get the car at a sufficiently low price, I think the risks are worth taking.

Re the beamers, in my view the current 5 series raised the bar so much design-wise, that the old shape 5 series cars now look extremely dated. The purists will obviously have their own opinion on this, but I wouldn't buy one. And as I said earlier in this thread I'd rather the VII than VIII.

Hobbers

Hi mate. Just read this thread thanks to a guy who posted a link to it on lancer register.

It really would be a massive gamble to buy this car given what you know about this car.

A few things should be put straight.

These cars can NEVER EVER be run on 95 RON fuel without serious risk of engine damage caused by detenation. Mitsubishi would not have said that so you are being lied to. Either that or Mitsi Ireland are incompetent. The only way these cars can be run safely on 95 RON fuel is if the engine ECU has been mapped to do so and then it would be down on power compared to standard.

It doesn't matter if it's fully synthetic oil or vegetable oil in there it needs changing every 4,500 miles. End of story. Service intervals are there for a reason they aren't a suggestion. Again Mitsi would not have said that it is OK to service tehm every 9000 miles (another lie)

Have they got documented evidence of this apparent service it has been given? You want to see the bills

Was the car properly run in? I doubt it.

If the car is is mistreated you can do plenty of damage to the engine in 65 miles let alone 6,500 miles.

The car does look nice granted, but these cars are expensive enough to run without buying one that is likely to be troublesome. If you've got your heart set on an Evo then wait for a good example to come with a full service history and a past that is less shady than this one's.

You don't know me, I don't know you but just take this free bit of advice from an existing Evo owner: Don't buy this unless you get it for £2k less than the going rate because that it what an engine rebuild will cost you.

These cars are superb but when they go wrong they make your life hell and your wallet empty, and this one is just waiting to do that.

Tommy Vercetti

Yep, the dealer is making it up as he goes along. Do not take the risk.

Buy a '96 1.3 anything to get you around and put the Saab money somewhere safe until the Evo of your dreams pops up.

best thing to do imo ^^^

unkel

And thank Hobbers for taking the trouble registering especially to give you advice