Disinheriting your "children"

AnRothar

Just reading a thread and it has piqued my curiosity about this.

It is my understanding that if you do not write a will then your estate must be shared out under the rules of intestacy.

No wriggle room here.

Suppose you actively dislike one/some/all of your "children".

This can work both ways, they are not required to like you either.

So you want to prevent them from unjust enrichment from your hard work over your lifetime.

This means you must write a will?

I get a doctor to certify that I am of sound mind.

Now to forestall potential court cases, either from begrudgery (see comment on they not liking you either) or "perceived" unfair treatment which would force the estate to spend money defending it.

In this scenario you would need to arrange your estate prior to passing.

I have given the bulk of my estate to charity/favorite child(children).

I leave enough to cover my funeral and a small profit.

In my will I want everything shared out equally.

So my next question is as follows.

In this scenario is there any possible avenue that the estranged offspring could seek to reverse the actions I take prior to passing?

Geuze

If you die without a will, here is what the Succession Act says, section 67:

67.—(1) If an intestate dies leaving a spouse and no issue, the spouse shall take the whole estate.

(2) If an intestate dies leaving a spouse and issue—

(a) the spouse shall take two-thirds of the estate, and

(b) the remainder shall be distributed among the issue in accordance with subsection (4).

(3) If an intestate dies leaving issue and no spouse, his estate shall be distributed among the issue in accordance with subsection (4).

(4) If all the issue are in equal degree of relationship to the deceased the distribution shall be in equal shares among them; if they are not, it shall be per stirpes.

Geuze

Look up Section 117:

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1965/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec117

SupaCat95

Fair question…….

There is a child you dont want to leave anything to? If you ignore the child then they can contest the will.

A better thing to do is to recognise the child in your will, "I leave my son Peter Griffin, a €1,280 euro worth of €1 scratch cards". He cannot claim he was not mentioned in the will and was left "something" and he was recognised.

hullaballoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123741489#Comment_123741489

not quite… ime in practice, anything short of equivalence between siblings will lead to a challenge and probably a re-divvying up of the portion of the estate for the children.

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123741652#Comment_123741652

So hypothetically If I felt that I was hard done by in life like my parents foolishly ignore a disability despite warnings from the school, I could claim to have the will assets reassessed?

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123741664#Comment_123741664

A will speaks from death, so the criteria for a successful challenge would require an examination of your circumstances and the circumstances of your siblings at the date of the parents death. If you are doing well and your siblings are not, then your ability to mount a successful challenge to the provision made for you 9if any) is small.

A parent is under no obligation to leave anything to any child, but Section 117 allows a child to claim adequate provision was not made for them. In may cases, because of the fact that the costs of the action may come out of the estate, the beneficiaries compromise the case.
If a parent wants to shaft a child they would be better putting the assets into a trust with the trustee given absolute discretion over the assets, having ensured that the trustee has been instructed verbally not to give a cent to the disliked child.

AnRothar

If a parent wants to shaft a child

but

but Section 117 allows a child to claim adequate provision was not made for them.

I could claim to have the will assets reassessed?

Hence my query that if I offload almost everything and move into rented accommodation for my twilight years and have only enough left to cover my funeral with a very small amount (say €1/5000) left to be shared out equally.

Can they try to chase assets that I no longer have but gave to a sibling/charity several years previously?

paulpd

A friend of mine only a few years ago - two siblings.

Mother died. Left the family home (c.750k) and all cash except 30k to her eldest son. The 30k was for ONE of her grandchildren. She had seven grandchildren.

My friend and his sibling got zero. My friend lived closest and regularly called to her. The older brother rarely called.

They tried to reason with the brother but all he had to say to them was "sorry, it was mams wishes". Other relatives reckoned she had that "eldest son should get everything" mentality.

They got advice and were told very little chance of successfully contesting the will so they didn't bother.

They even suggested he reduce the Revenue bill by moving it around a bit but he was having none of it - paid Revenue the CAT of €130k or thereabouts.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123741987#Comment_123741987

It would work if you knew exactly when you are going to die and how much you will need to live on in your twilight years. If rents increase after you have given away your money to charity you will be in deep trouble. Furthermore you may have expensive medical bills in your latter years and not having the money to pay for treatment could leave you in pain.
If you have a crystal ball, who are you going to leave it to?

SupaCat95

@paulpd Its not unusual for people to go funny in the head in their old age. Many a young fella served his youth on his bachelor uncles farm with the hope the uncle would leave him the farm, only for the uncle to leave the whole farm to the other nephew "who just came home from England after doing well in the building".

So what happened the other nephew who whiled his youth on the farm in his 40s with no wife and no trade? He was given £5k and wished the best of luck because the UK nephew had to move his family onto the farm the next morning.

Heard the story many times before.

paulpd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123742088#Comment_123742088

Initially the will was to be split three ways but their father died in 2007. Their will back then stated that. The mother changed the will in 2015 for some reason. The brother was fairly manipulative and had received many cash gifts for this and that over the years. A proper favourite child/son.

Anyways, better to not think about it and move on for them.

AnRothar

It would work

To do something like this required foresight and intelligence.

This is purely a theoretical exercise (for now 😁😁😁).

As I said I follow different threads here and 2 things spring to mind.

Where there is a will there is a war

and

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Our setup is each inherit everything from the other.

Should we go together then its 50/50.

And eventually when they go its 50/50.

This is what we have discussed and set up (🤞).

mother changed the will in 2015 for some reason.

However once one is gone the other is freely entitled to do what they wish.

Past indiscretions or slights can loom large.

bladespin

How would this apply in the case of step children, say a child from a previous relationship, the wicked stepmother story? Widowed Father has a child, meets someone new and has a family with the new lady, then dies leaving her the estate, later she passes leaving the estate to her children leaving the step chold out?

endofrainbow

You know what they say 'where there's a will, there's a relative' !

eusap

If you write a will in sound body and mind, Its your wishes and will be respected by the court. There can only be a challenge if the child has not been provided for e.g. less than 18 years old or needs long term care. But for most children once they are more than 18 and have been provided for, food, education etc….. then there are very few solicitors that will take that case as it is pointless

dennyk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123741987#Comment_123741987

Your assets are entirely yours so long as you're still alive and you are free to use or dispose of them as you see fit while you are still living. Your will only governs the distribution of your estate after you die, and a challenge to the will can only affect the distribution of whatever is in that estate. If you choose to give away most of your worldly assets to some other party before you die, a beneficiary challenging your will can't force that to be undone.

jacool

Different countries - different laws.

In Germany, for example, there is Der Pflichtteil - The Compulsory Share of Inheritance in Germany.

Everyone has the right to draw up a will freely, but the testator is obliged under German inheritance law has to take certain family members into account in their last will and to give them a “compulsory share”.

I know a case where the father has left his two children nothing, but this will be resolvable, with costs, by lawyers. He knew this would happen, but after a life of being an absolute ……, he couldn't resist one final act, to prove he was a total ………..

At least the children know they will get a pre-determined percentage.

Don't think Irish law has such guarantees though.

dennyk

Don't think Irish law has such guarantees though.

Only for a spouse or civil partner; they are legally entitled to half of their spouse's estate if the spouse has no children or one third of the estate if the spouse has children, regardless of what the deceased's will says. Children have no explicit legal entitlement to any portion of an estate, though; they could try to make a claim under Section 117 of the Succession Act on the basis that the deceased failed their moral duty to "make proper provision" for the child during their lifetime, but that would be decided on a case by case basis and isn't an easy claim to win.