Fully remote company, travel and subsistence rates

harderthanf

We are a fully remote company with all employees working from home. We tend to meet up regularly in meeting points around Dublin (hotels lobbies etc.) for meetings. Some of these meetings can be every week but mostly every 2-3 weeks.

Does anyone know if the company can pay the employees the Revenue travel and subsistence rates? There is mention on the Revenue site of "normal place of work" but I am unsure what the exact definition of this means and very often a reasonable interpretation of a word is completely different in legal terms!

Fr Tod Umptious

What did HR/your manager say when you asked?

It should all be in your contract or the companies set of policies.

Personally speaking as a 100% remote worker, I'd not be happy if I had to travel to a certain location every week or a few times a month and not get my expenses paid.

harderthanf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123724640#Comment_123724640

I am more interested in the accountancy side of it to be honest. I agree everyone should be paid for travel but I am not sure if the Revenue will allow it. Hence, the question!

DmanDmythDledge

It all depends on what is stated as the "normal place of work" in the employee contracts. Travel from that location to the location where the meetings take place would be allowable as a tax-free expense.

It would be doubtful that the cost of travel from home to the location the meetings take place could be paid tax-free. Revenue have been pretty clear in their guidance that, as it is travel from home to work, it generally isn't a tax-free payment.

If it is deemed taxable, the company could always gross it up and deem it to be net of tax.

Hotblack Desiato

That's the nub of the issue though, a fully remote worker doesn't have a "normal place of work" other than their home.

JVince

If the employment was always remote, then expenses would be allowable.

If employment was originally based in an office in Stephen's green and they subsequently allowed all work be remote, it probably is not allowed.

There was something along these lines recently in the WRC where an employee moved a substantial distance away. The company then requested people come back to the office and she took a case

The result was that as her position was originally office based and no permanent remote working was agreed, she had to adhere to the return to office.

The officer did remark that if the position was always remote, then her home would be the "place of work" as that would have been the original place of work

DmanDmythDledge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123726417#Comment_123726417

That's dependent on what the contract of employment says though.

plhealy2000

Normal place of work is not relevant for travel expenses. Revenue review the trip from home to be personal in nature regardless of frequency or distance.

Hotblack Desiato

Everything you have said is wrong.

DubCount

Normal place of work

This may be helpful….

The Continental Op

Since when was meeting up at a random hotel deemed to be travelling to a place of work?

Particularly if there is a main office and employees are meeting up in another location (random hotel) than that isn't there normal place of work.

blinking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123727003#Comment_123727003

Completely incorrect.

DmanDmythDledge

Revenue's TDMs on the topic.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-05/05-01-06.pdf

"2.4 Travelling from home to work and work to home

It is a long-established principle of tax case law that the expenses of travelling from
home to work and vice versa are expenses of travelling which are not necessarily
incurred by an office holder or employee in the performance of the duties of her/his
office or employment.

If an office holder or employee receives expense payments in respect of travelling to
and from work, such expense payments are taxable and subject to PAYE deductions
(but see Chapter 4.4.4 re employees recalled to their normal place of work to deal
with emergencies and Chapter 4.5 re taxis home on an irregular basis)."

"2.5 Rates of reimbursement

2.5.1 Remote Working

If an employee works part-time in the office and part-time at home, her/his work
base is the office.

Expenses of travelling between an individual’s home and place of work may not be
reimbursed tax-free. Likewise, subsistence expenses for periods spent in an
individual’s home may not be paid without deduction of tax.

See Tax and Duty Manual Part 05-02-13 for further information on remote working
arrangements."

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-05/05-02-13.pdf

"6 Normal Place of Work and Remote Working
Generally, if an employee works part-time in the office and part-time at home, the normal place of work is the office. Similarly, in the Covid-19 situation where an employee was required to work at home full time for the duration of the pandemic, the normal place of work is the office. Note that under no circumstances may expenses be reimbursed tax free in relation to travel between an employee’s home and his or her place of work. Likewise, subsistence expenses may not be paid without deduction of tax in respect of periods spent in an employee’s home. The rules on determining the normal place of work are discussed in more detail in Tax and Duty Manual Part 05-01-06.

Example 4 - Normal place of work for remote-working and travel expenses

Mary works as a computer programmer. She works in the Galway office 3 days per
week and from home 2 days per week. There is a formal remote working agreement
in place between Mary and her employer. Mary’s employer pays her €6.40 per week
(i.e., €3.20 per day for the 2 days a week working from home) in respect of
expenditure incurred in the performance of her duties from home.

Mary occasionally travels to clients’ premises to carry out maintenance on computer
systems. These calls can take place when Mary is due in the office or due to be
working at home. Mary’s normal place of work is the Galway office. When Mary
travels to clients’ premises, she is entitled to claim travel and subsistence expenses,
subject to the normal rules, in respect of journeys between the shorter of:

(i) home to the client’s premises; and

(ii) Galway office to the client’s premises.

If Mary receives €3.20 from her employer for the same day that she is claiming travel
and subsistence expenses in respect of visiting a client’s premises, then the €3.20
will be regarded as pay for that day and taxed accordingly."