Aer lingus first wave punctuality

KFed

Travelling with Aer lingus soon to Naples which departs at 0615.

Have been looking on flight aware and it occasionally seems to have a gate departure time that can be 30 mins late or more. For example it seemed to be 45 mins late today. Just surprised for the first wave that they'd be departing with that level of delay. 15-20 mins seems more typical but there's a few showing as 45 mins or more.

Im just curious if this is driven by atc, or would it be more localized factors on the day (late pax or similar)?

I've noticed the gate itself seems to vary between a 3 gate or a 4 gate as well as south gates. Does the gate itself influence delays (pax or transit pax not showing on time or less space to push and start or a bottle neck to get out of 335/south gates for example?)

Just curious!

Dublinflyer

A lot of it would be down to traffic volume on the day. Lots of flights trying to get away (and in) first thing in the morning. Flights to less forgiving loactions like London will get out before some other destinations. If you miss your landing slot for Heathrow or Amsterdam getting back in can be a challange whereas Naples might be easier to manage with a delay. Flights that tend to be connection heavy loads will have more buffers built in as well. The location of the gate can lead to pax related delays as well, especially if they are the south gates or and Aer Lingus flight departing from T1. I am sure airport ops people can write volumes on this topic but even though it's the first wave issues still happen, congestion, tech problems, staffing or weather.

bikeman1

All of what Dublinflyer says is all perfectly correct. A multitude of reasons and ops priorities go into getting everyone up in the air.

In addition, you have airport collaborative decision making. This is basically where Air Traffic Control (ATC) works with all the airlines to efficiently manage the flow of aircraft as best possible within the volume and constraints it has.

When you are boarding at DUB, look up in front of the cockpit, there will be a stand number, flight number, aircraft type and then the all import TBOT. This is the time the crews have to try and get the aircraft fully ready to push for (doors closed). TBOT stands for Target Off Block Time. Now if they miss that due to late running pax eg heading to the South Gates or slightly delayed connection then ATC will update this TBOT but potentially much further down the line as other flights ready for their TBOT will be allowed to go. Of course, another flight won't be ready and they can squeeze you in and off you go.

A further complication (and very relevant one) is your en route slots to destination. June, July and August have the skies over Europe packed to capacity and with French delays, this means they may have to hold you back. Finally, smaller airports in Europe, go from limited operations to tens of thousands of passengers a day. They too are limited on the ground in what they can accept due to parking stands etc. Again, that can add some delays too if something else is astray in the matrix!

All in all it is a miracle that it works as well as it does so much of the time!

john boye

I've been on a couple of early EI flights which were delayed to wait for some connecting pax from late arriving TATL flights.

kindalen

Offloading a bag for a missing/late pax can be a pain. Containers mights need to be offloaded and bingo cards checked etc.

Ground crew not showing up.

The list is endless.

Lustrum

Just to add to this, the TOBT is what time the airline says the flight will be ready. The important one is the TSAT, which is what time ATC say you need to be ready based on their traffic flow Management. Generally, the TOBT will be the same as your expected departure time, unless there is perceived delays and the airline move this back, or forward if ready early. But if the TSAT as set by the airport isn't for an hour after your departure time, well then you're not going anywhere until TSAT -5 at the earliest. And unfortunately, this is completely out of the pilots hands, it is purely an airport restriction.

Sometimes in summer it's almost better to have an ATC slot (a CTOT) so you definitely know what time you're going at!

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614513#Comment_123614513

Very true. But not too many connections to a 0615 departure.
Maybe from the JFK-DUB (0425) or BOS-JFK (0430)

Locker10a

This morning’s departure to Naples (scheduled for 6:15am) had an ATC slot which did not allow takeoff until 6:55am .

It was ready to push at 6:02am but wasn’t released from the gate until 6:41am

Hope this helps paint a picture of how the airfield and sky capacity is managed from an ATC perspective

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123616392#Comment_123616392

The following flights make connection onto the 06:15 Naples in the morning:

EI104 JFK

EI132 BOS

EI116 IAD

EI122 ORD

Interestingly today both the JFK and IAD were very late and missed that connection if there was anyone for it.

KFed

Thanks all for your very informative replies.

I've been on the Naples before (inbound) and there were lots of passengers connecting on to ei transatlantic to go home so the connections definitely makes sense.

Nice to see the actual gate itself doesn't seem to be much of a factor and more so just atc and connections.

Thanks for the replies and kudos to all of the professionals keeping it all moving!

LXFlyer

One other point to bear in mind is that the scheduled times are the times the aircraft is due to push back off stand at the departure airport and the time it is due to arrive on stand at the arrival airport.

Flightaware and Flightradar24 use for actual times the time the aircraft actually takes off and the time the aircraft lands on the runway, which doesn’t take into account taxiiing times to and from the stands.

So comparing these two is to an extent comparing apples with oranges, as the schedules include allowances for taxiing at airports and delays.

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123626418#Comment_123626418

Exactly wheels up and wheels down time is very different to block time!

Especially at the big airports. Pushing from South Gates to 28R is a good 10 minute spin. The likes of Amsterdam’s 36L are 20 minutes taxiing from some stands. As you say, all is factored into the “journey” time for flights.