was this an assault?

Hi everyone,

Just wondering if something that happened to me a year or two ago was an assault?

Some time ago, a man, whom I'll call Jake (not his real name), sent me a friend request on Facebook, and I accepted. And then we started talking. And it became very clear, very quickly to me that he fancied me. I wasn't sure if I fancied him, but I thought that maybe I did. I really disliked the way he talked to me. He very quickly said to me, 'I love you', he was so 'pushy' in general, and he sent me explicit photos even though I said no. I agreed to have a date with him after talking online for several months. At some point, we swapped phone numbers while we talked online. When the day came for our date, I took a lot of medication, as at the time I was suffering from an addiction to codeine. I was as high as a kite! At the time, no one knew about this, but I sought professional help (eventually) and I've come out the other side of it. I'm now nearly sober for about 3 months.

Anyway, going back to the date itself, he came down from Waterford to meet me, I live about an hour away from him, so I met him off a bus at the bus station. When I saw him, I realised that I didn't actually fancy him, and I got a huge sinking feeling in my stomach. Before we actually met, I made absolutely clear I just wanted to talk to him, and to get to know him, and not make out/have sex, etc. When we met, I found myself inviting him over to my apartment. We watched a movie. When we were watching the film, he kept trying to kiss me, even when I said no and moved away from him. He didn't give up so easily! He also tried to take off my clothes and touch me in my private places, and completely ignored my No!

In the end, I pushed him off me/away from me, and I ordered him out of my apartment, which he wasn't happy with at all. I blocked him on all social media afterwards. I still have nightmares about it to this day, which brings a chill to my spine. I also hate being touched by anyone these days, so it has affected me and has me wondering if it was an assault?

If it was/is, is there any way I can report it without involving the police? I am on the spectrum, so I am not sure if I could handle the process of reporting it to the police and if it came down to a court case.

Also, I'm not dating anyone currently, and I will have to be careful in future. Not going to accept random Facebook requests and bring people back to my place ever again! Not first dates anyway!

Thanks for everyone's replies😀

CalamariFritti

Well I dont know. During/after a date you invited someone to your place. It was likely one if you was going to try it on at this point would you agree? He did and you werent interested. Then he was a little more persistent than you would have wanted, but ultimately he left when you made clear you were serious about it.

I dont really know what qualifies as 'assault' these days but to my mind it would not be an 'assault'. There are some definitions out there under which this would be sexual assault, possibly. But it's like how long is a piece of string. How persistent, how nasty how this and that.

I'm unclear what your motivation is. Not wanting the police involved seems to indicate to me you dont actually want to turn this into a police case against him. So maybe you dont even think yourself it was quite an assault?

Or do you just want to make sure it qualifies before you go to the police?

In any case you will only get opinions here on whether or not it was but the opinions will not mean much. People cant give you legal advice here and maybe thats what you want?

Or do you? Are you quite clear yourself what you want to get out of this at this point?

SupaCat95

See a solicitor about it.

I would have serious doubts about a historical case, a codeine addiction (plus taking medication recreationally) and that you invited him back to yours after months of talking.

hawley

Yes, I would think that it is an assault. He barely knew you and had only just met you, physically, for the first time. A lot is going to depend on your chat logs. If there was sexually explicit talk in there, it might weaken your case. The chance of him going to jail is minimal, I would say. What kind of background does he have(without giving away personal information)? Does he have any issues that could affect the case?

SupaCat95

Assault maybe. Get a conviction … very doubtful.

the_amazing_raisin

Were you assaulted? In my opinion, yes you were. The only consent is a clear "yes" and not only were you not saying yes, you told him no multiple times

He continued to push you towards sex, and in so doing deprived you of any agency in the matter. In other words, your opinions and wishes didn't matter as long as he got what he wanted

That is assault, clear as day

No doubt there'll be a few people here giving some horseshit opinions about how you gave him ideas when you invited him to your apartment but they can all **** right off

When someone says no, that is the end of it, simple as. The other person can ask why, and they can be as unhappy as they want, but they aren't entitled to anything

So on to your second question about what to do.

I would say that you should moderate your expectations. It's highly unlikely that the guy will get any form of conviction on the back of your testimony

However, I would encourage you to report your experience to the guards. Seek legal advice beforehand by all means, but I think you should still report it and give a full and honest account of your experience

I realise that is a very big ask, however in doing so you may help other women.

Let's be frank, the kind of person who tries these predatory tactics with you is almost certainly going to use them on other women.

At some point it's likely he's going to step too far and end up on trial. At that point there'll probably be a check on any previous offences and if you have made a report to the guards (and ensured it was recorded) then this will stand against him in court

I can't promise there won't be any follow up questions as a result, this is probably what you need legal advice for

I would also recommend downloading and keeping a record of your contacts with him. Look up how to download your data from messaging app and social media and submit them as part of your report. Keep your own copy safe as well with backups in case it's ever needed

Lastly, I just want to say how sorry I am for your experience. I can't imagine going through something like that myself and please seek professional help if you feel the need for it

Obviously not all men are like this guy but there is unfortunately a small but significant group who believe they can do as they please with other people. Regrettably for people like that there's often little chance of rehabilitation, only the risk of severe punishment will stop them

I think you're very brave for sharing your experience with people and for taking the steps you've already taken. Hopefully a bit more bravery will help someone else and keep that creep from assaulting any other women

Also, sorry if that last bit sounded lame. I'm not great at keeping talks as you can probably tell 😅

xyz13

Mod - Warning applied. You have been advised more than once that your posts do not meet the standard required by the PI charter.

DellyBelly

I think you were lucky nothing more sinister happened to be honest. In my opinion I'd move on and leave it be because I don't think your secure a conviction on what you have said...you probably need to be more careful going forced though

ted1

he tried to touch you , and you explicitly told him that he had no consent. he proceeded to touch you.

Yea that’s assault

Thanks for all your replies

Gosh, this still haunts me to this day. My hands are shaking as I type this.

Why I wrote this post: To get this off my chest as I was botting this up and was literally holding it in. I had to let it out. I have told no one (my family, my friends, etc) about this. And I was driving myself crazy thinking, was it an assault or wasn't it? I was thinking to myself that it was, but I just wasn't 100% sure.

I know very little about the guy and his background. I only know his name/the city where he lives, and roughly where he works/some of his hobbies and interests, and that he has a reputation for being in trouble (don't know exact details)—someone to stay well away from anyway. I was told this after it had happened, but I wish someone had told me a lot sooner! The chats that we had before we met were mainly about sex (from him), and I was saying that I wasn't comfortable discussing sex when we didn't know each other, and I was trying to change the subject to more small talk matters, etc. Again, a red flag there.

Why I invited him over: At the time, I was suffering from an addiction to codeine, and when you're on a drug and abuse it, it really clouds your judgment on stuff, and therefore your actions. I'm not really explaining it well, but part of me was 'out' of it, and I didn't know what the hell I was doing! Also, part of me was fairly panicked with anxiety when I met him. But the fact that I invited him over is totally irrelevant; it wouldn't have made a difference, he would have acted in a similar manner towards me, no matter where I was or where we were together! 😡

I don't think I will press charges against him for a few reasons, but I will consider reporting the incident to the police, just so they're aware of it.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507229#Comment_123507229

This, so I won't repeat it @butterfly_200. But absolutely.

The only thing I would add to it is that if you go to the guards, you may find it really tough, and TBH you're unlikely to get much of a result from it, so be prepared for that. It would be great if you could because maybe it might help somebody else, but the reality is that it may not make any difference at all, for various reasons.

So if you do go - well I mean, I would encourage you to do that if you are able for it. But make sure that you protect your own mental health before any supposed "obligation" to other people. Because you could do all that, at the expense of your own well being, and it could all go into a desk somewhere and be no use to anyone at all.

By the same token, if you decide you can't do it, that's ok too. He's not your responsibility and the truth is that you probably can't actually stop him from offending again. All you can do is maybe add a little stone to a case that's being built against him - and is that really worth your mental health?

Look after yourself.

Dial Hard

I think you'd benefit from making contact with the Rape Crisis Centre at the very least. You're processing a lot and they'll be able to help you through that and advise you on what making a formal complaint to the Gardai will entail.

I also think you would benefit hugely from speaking to a professional about the way you approach interactions with people in general. You've had a number of threads about various social and professional relationships and I think you probably need a little help figuring out how you navigate those in general. In this specific case, you ignored a number of absolutely raging red flags, this guy was making you seriously uncomfortable long before you ever met him, but you went ahead with the date anyway. Again, I think this is something you should probably explore with a professional.

Rubberchikken

Maybe speaking to a professional might be helpful before going to the gardai.

I'm not dismissing what you went through, only I'm guessing talking to the authorities might be a lot to handle if you're not in a strong place.

Well done on overcoming the addiction. You should get as much h support as you can to help with meeting any future dates. Most men are grand. It's the one like this guy that leaves such a bloody mess behind.

Take care

Thanks guys

Was thinking of the rape crisis centre as my first port of call

I am in the process of building a 'support network' of people whom I can go to for advice about people (as I didn't have this at the time of the attack).

I also created a 'throwaway' boards account so I could ask questions like I did. Am fairly well-known on boards 😀

Anyway thanks again

extra-ordinary_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123509153#Comment_123509153

But the fact that I invited him over is totally irrelevant; it wouldn't have made a difference, he would have acted in a similar manner towards me, no matter where I was or where we were together!

You don't really believe that do you? So if you had suggested going for a coffee and a chat he would have been the same, that's what you're saying here? You know, and everyone else knows this to be horse ****. When two people meet up there are signals exchanged. Inviting a man off the internet you've never met before back to your apartment gives a signal whether people agree with me or not.

I'm not excusing what he did - you were assaulted, but you invited him back to your place so you gave him the complete opposite signal to your statement -

"When I saw him, I realised that I didn't actually fancy him, and I got a huge sinking feeling in my stomach."

Maybe in future, for your own sake, don't do meetups when you're out of it on drugs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123509344#Comment_123509344

What I'm saying is if I had suggested a coffee and a chat and gone to a cafe, he still would have tried to kiss me and make out with me. Possibly tried to touch me inappropriately, I wouldn't have put it past him to be honest! I hate to say this, but he quite simply did not care. I obviously never want to see him again!!

I went through absolute hell with my addiction for a very long time, so I won't be doing that again either!!

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123509383#Comment_123509383

Please don't let anyone put the blame on you. If you had met him somewhere else, maybe you would have seen enough never to meet him again, but far more likely is that he'd have held himself back enough to be able to get you to come out again and then he'd have ensured, as it was a second or subsequent date, and you were getting to know each other (supposedly) that it went further or was more complicated for you to get out of or whatever.

So absolutely don't blame yourself - he is responsible not you.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123509344#Comment_123509344

Signals, really?

Her mouth was saying f**k off, but her eyes were saying come hither or some garbage like that?

Seems to have been a pretty clear pattern of disinterest from the OP and predatory behavior from the guy. I'm struggling to see what kind of signal he got that she was genuinely interested, more like he got a signal that she was an easy target

It really isn't difficult to treat other people with some basic respect and to understand when they say something like "no" it doesn't actually mean "maybe" or "yes"

A lot of people could do with remembering this and stop trying to normalise disrespectful behaviour or shift the blame to the victim

As for not going on dates when intoxicated, have you ever done anything while under the influence and later realised it was a bad idea? Yeah, me too, and almost everyone else in the world.

While the situation and consequences may be different, the impaired judgment is the same. So perhaps you might consider that before passing your judgment of others

Thank you for that post there the amazing raisin! I would thank that post a million times if I could!

Esse85

This was assault by the man in my view.

For any girls reading, please be aware of all the red flags along the way so you don't find yourself in a similar situation.

"sent me a friend request on Facebook, and I accepted", never accept strange friends requests.

"really disliked the way he talked to me", cut the person off at source immediately.

"He very quickly said to me, 'I love you'," not even met in person and a stranger is saying this, delete and block the person.

"he was so 'pushy' in general, and he sent me explicit photos even though I said no." Delete and block anyone who does this to you.

"When the day came for our date, I took a lot of medication" never meet anyone from the internet for the first time in this state.

"When we met, I found myself inviting him over to my apartment." Never ever invite someone to your home to watch a movie having only met them the first time, especially if they are all of the above^^^

"He also tried to take off my clothes and touch me in my private places, and completely ignored my No!" If it's gotten that far, please contact the guards immediately so this attacker doesn't strike again.

charlessmith22

Sorry this happened and it does sound like an assault.

I know you said your judgement was clouded at the time but you are currently saying its irrelevant that you invited him back- he would have done it anywhere. For your own future safety, that's really not true OP. The chances of something like this(or worse) happening is infinity higher in your private space than a public place like a bar/coffee shop ect. Sorry i don't mean to sound condescending but you said you were on the spectrum so perhaps you miss things a neurotypical brain wouldn't. So try to build trust in public spaces for a few dates(or however long until you feel safe) before you end up leaving yourself vulnerable.

Bargain4

By going to the Guards you will free yourself from anger. You will hve t name him but ask for it t b a statement only and you don't want t follow up with it just yet. If there is any confusion about it at the front Garda Station desk ask for a more senior Garda. It's all about freeing your torment and leave it in the past and if there is a previous or future incident on file it will help t keep females safer

spaceHopper

Sorry, this happened to you, yes it was assault. I don't know if you'll get justice from it. As you've mentioned talk to the rape crisis center and take your lead from them. But in all of this trust your gut instincts.

From the sound of it he love-bombed you and then tried to make it sexual. Tied to overstep your boundaries. You said you are on the spectrum maybe he was exploiting that. He's probably sent friendship requests to lots of Girls, it's a numbers game. Lookout for it future. People / Predators are depending on you been too shy to say fúck off not wanting to cause offence. If somebody's behavior isn't up to your standards, then simply drop them. Any offence taken by them if fake and an attempt to draw you back in.

taxAHcruel

I would not only agree with the near total consensus on this thread that the physical advances on you were "assault" but I would even be tempted to go so far as saying sending you explicit sexual images of himself (or of anyone else) after you explicitly forbade it was pretty much a type of sexual assault too.

Maybe not in a legal sense as I genuinely have no idea if there are laws against sending "legal" porn to people who have requested you do not. But I would still see it as a forced sexual advance that you expressly withheld consent from all the same.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123511414#Comment_123511414

I absolutely agree with this, to predators like this guy it's just about getting more notches on the bedpost than any kind of meaningful relationship

I mentioned earlier that it isn't difficult to treat people with respect and it shouldn't be accepted as a chore from anyone

Unfortunately as you say, predators depend on other people believing this and taking advantage of it. I don't think any of us were brought up to tell people to take a hike once we were bored of them, so it creates a loophole in all of us that can be exploited

To give a (vastly) less serious example, those guys who do door to door sales are basically imposing themselves on you and depending on your good manners not to slam the door in their face (even though you might want to)

I'm not having a go at door to door sellers, from what I hear it's a pretty awful job. But they are taught to take advantage of people's good nature

Now imagine that same attitude in someone looking for sex and not caring about whether the other person is a willing participant...

People can be pretty awful when they want to be ☹️

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123511503#Comment_123511503

I don't think it's considered assault but it's almost certainly considered harassment

I'm not sure if it's a criminal offense however

If nothing else, it's incredibly stupid. The guy is literally creating a digital trail of his harassment

He obviously feels pretty impervious, or more likely thinks he's some kind of sex god and when women refuse him he dismisses them as crazy or frigid

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123509524#Comment_123509524

No worries, glad to hear you're in a better spot now 👍

Bargain4

She needs t report to the Guards for her own mental health. They do not hve t take action on it if SHE doesn't want t

Thanks everyone. Did a bit of googling and there's a rape crisis centre there (never knew my town had one!) about 10 minutes from where I live. So, going to make contact with them and take things from there (see how I get on). 😀🤞

HildaOgdenx

Mod - OP, I'm going to close off your thread at this point.
Thanks all who took time to give advice, as always it's very much appreciated.

All the best.
Hilda