Removing a wall options, remove entire wall or RSJ

Ray Palmer

There is a wall in my living room that has pocket doors. I want to remove the wall but there is a brick wall above it. This entire wall does not support the floor above as the joists don't connect to it. In the attic the ceiling joints don't rest on the wall either.

Which is cheaper and easier to do?

1. remove the entire wall and replace the upstairs wall with a patrician stud wall
2. remove the lower part of the wall and put in a RSJ

In particular do not want a beam going across the ceiling in the living room and want a smooth ceiling.

I will get a proper engineering report to make sure but take it as fact the wall doesn't support anything other than itself.

BenIrishHome

I'm guessing you'll need to provide more info for the experts here to respond. Is it a bungalow or a 2 storey house? photos?

I'm following keenly cos I'm thinking about doing the same with the back wall of my dormer bungalow.

10-10-20

It's a tricky one alright as it's borderline a structural question!

Define this a bit better: "I want to remove the wall but there is a brick wall above it." Is the brick wall running parallel with and directly on top of the pocket-door wall? And what material encloses the pockets of the door-wall, stud or brick/block?

Ray Palmer

Its a two story house with block constriction. The pocket doors are in a stud wall attached to the block wall. The block wall continues up to the bedroom upstairs. This is in the middle of the house. Built in the 50s

blackbox

I'm not quite following you. It looks like the block/brick wall goes all the way to the upstairs ceiling. Do you know what is supporting it over the doorway?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123380274#Comment_123380274

Yes it does. I assume it it is a concrete lintel over the doorway. The wall is in-between the floor joists and the roof joists are perpendicular to the wall but not resting on it.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123380338#Comment_123380338

Probably a poured lintel then. But as to whether it's 'structural' or not depends on whether it's supporting the external walls in some way. Getting an RSJ in to the space between the joists will be a challenge as the upstairs wall will need to be supported in the meantime, plus it depends on whether the RSJ can be supported from both sides, and it sounds like a joist would need to be removed to allow access…

Anyway… I'd await guidance from a builder/engineer.

suvigirl

I'd love to have pocket doors 😍

blackbox

I'm assuming you want to remove the lintel. The solution might be to put an RSJ above the lintel before removing it.

Your first step is to find the actual lintel.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123380563#Comment_123380563

I like them too but they are a bit of a pain. If there are any problems they are difficult to fix and require taking down various trims at least. If you ever put them in have a maintenance access.

Ray Palmer

Take it as a given the wall does not support anything other than itself. It is an internal wall that nothing rests on and doesn't span the width of the house. The question is really about costs and ease of what to do.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123381860#Comment_123381860

Are you not answering your own question? If the wall doesn't expand the width of the house the rsj will have to so what's in the rest of the width?

Maybe just remove the stud partition and doors as that will give you a wide enough ope from the looks of your drawing?

blackbox

Another option to consider is replacing the upstairs block wall with a stud partition - or maybe only the part above the door.

If you did this you could support it with a timber beam.

baxterooneydoody

To put in an rsj you'll have to support the walls overhead if you want to hide it in the joists. Another option is to leave the rsj at door height which would make it easier to install and it could all be done from downstairs without having to make a mess upstairs, 3rd option is to knock it from the top which will require a lot of repair work afterwards. If it was me to cut down on mess and cost I'd leave the rsj at door height without compromising the space width ways

Ray Palmer

Thanks for the replies but I think people are missing some points

1. ceiling must be flat so no beam below the ceiling
2. I am look at which costs more and which is easiest

The wall is in the centre of the house. It is in between a living room and a dining room. There is a hall on the other side of the wall as the wall does not span the width of the property

I am not too bothered about mess as it will likely be part of other works and I will be re-plastering the dining room ceiling either way.

I believe if I was putting is an RSJ to support the wall while doing so I would need to put props through the ceiling which would be very messy and require much more repair.

If I take the whole wall down I think it will be less repair afterwards.

I don't know for sure so I am asking for advice around that and if the cost of a partition wall is cheaper than an RSJ.

baxterooneydoody

In that case I'd take the wall, the cost of getting a competent tradesman in to support upstairs wall to fit an rsj would be more than knocking the wall, you'd have it knocked while you'd be propping it as long as it's not structural I'd say from experience that's the way I'd do it