Quick question re changing electric shower.

muffler

My old Triton electric shower is on it's last legs and I have a new replacement here for it. My question is can I get a plumber to do this or do I need an electrician?

Escapees

Ah, that famous question. Either is the answer I think, but…

muffler

The problem I have here personally is that I know 2 guys who are both plumbers and qualified electricians but as usual they are impossible to get hold of. I have a radiator problem to get sorted also so I definitely need a plumber and Im hoping they could do the shower replacement also.

I know there are various DIY type jobs that can be done by anyone but then there are more detailed electrical works that require a qualified electrician and require a cert to be issued upon completion. Im just wondering if a shower replacement falls into the latter category.

Escapees

No is the answer to your last question. The two guys you know would be ideal. There's always debate about whether it's a job best done by an electrician or plumber, but the general consensus is an electrician from a safety point of view.

meercat

you’ll need an electrician.(or both)

Only an rec is permitted to do electrical work in bathrooms (including replacement)

They’ll have to test it and certify it also

Sometimes it’s not as straightforward as it seems. Cable sizes need to be checked as newer showers require 10mm cable.
The trip switch may also have to be replaced to meet current regulations

If the main cable from the meter to your distribution board is too small then it’s not permitted to undertake this work

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123212110#Comment_123212110

Does it actually say that anywhere though?

A safe electric inspector told me he understood replacing a shower would be be classified as minor works, (despite a bathroom being a part7 location)

I note a prominent shower manufacturer who have service engineers on the road in Ireland, are not registered electrical contractors.

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123212178#Comment_123212178

paragraph 2 of definition of restricted electric work

https://safeelectric.ie/help-advice/controlled-restricted-electrical-works/

Lenar3556

I’ve seen that, but further down there is says that minor works are excluded, of which a like for replacement is normally considered. There doesn’t seem to be a clear position on it.

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123212736#Comment_123212736

you’ve already said it. Special locations listed in part 7 are restricted works.

muffler

Some difference in opinions here. I do of course want a safe job done but to more or less repeat the question is there anything that states that I legally need to employ a registered electrician to do the job?

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123213056#Comment_123213056

Any significant electrical work in a domestic house is ‘restricted works’ under the legislation and only a registered electrical contractor is legally permitted to do this work.

There is an exemption for ‘minor works’, for which there isn’t a conclusive definition. My reading of it is that a like for like swop of a shower could reasonably be considered minor electrical works, and therefore there is no implicit requirement to engage a electrical contractor - that’s my view, others may differ.

meercat

it’s clearly stated and I’ve linked the relevant regulation

A competent rec needs to install,test and certify this work

A plumber won’t have a clue if it’s wired correctly or the trip switches function within peramiters

You might have an issue with your guarantee if it’s not certified also

Calling SLEEPER

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123213955#Comment_123213955

Yes, but you haven’t addressed the subsequent reference to minor electrical works remaining outside the scope. By your reckoning paragraph 1 from the same document would prohibit the installation of a new socket outlet from a ring circuit, but that provision is specifically identified as minor works. I did also mention the individual view of a safe electric inspector who I spoke to, and the fact that one of the biggest electric shower distributors in Ireland is undertaking this work, not being a registered electrical contractor.

Clearly the work needs to be carried out correctly, and anyone doing so needs to be competent to undertake the project - but does replacing a shower on a like for like basis give rise to much additional risk? If there was a defective RCBO on the old shower, that risk isn’t increased by fitting a new shower. In the case of an old shower, and fitting a larger one the circuit may be undersized, and this is something that a competent installer (REC or not) should identify, but you can make that argument when it comes to replacing a plug top fuse.

You can’t legislate for every eventuality. It’s noteworthy that the current position is that anybody can carry out all manners of electrical work in any premises other than a domestic house, so if this were an electric shower in a nursing home there would be no argument? Indeed the installer could wire the whole thing from scratch in that instance.

I don’t accept there is warranty implication, unless defective installation caused the failure.

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214076#Comment_123214076

in this thread you point out that only a rec is permitted to carry out electrical work in a bathroom

on the point of warranty

Earthridge(the main agent for Triton)wouldn’t do a call out to a faulty shower for warranty purposes,unless a certificate was provided

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737851#Comment_122737851?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=Electrical++works+bathroom+

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214296#Comment_123214296

I did, but I have since had cause to doubt that position, which is why I am putting it on the table.

I haven’t had that experience with Earthridge as recently as a few weeks ago. They just wanted an undertaking that they would be paid for attendance if the fault was found to be not with the shower. I can’t think of any statutory, practical or commercial reason why they would do so - most of the install related problems are likely to be on the plumbing side.

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214394#Comment_123214394

this topic was discussed multiple times on this forum

Sleeper 11 who’s business does this work regularly contacted the cru and safe electric as far back as 2017 and it’s not permitted for anyone other than a rec to do electrical work in bathrooms (that includes replacement of shower)

this thread should help you

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057731951/reci-cert-for-replacing-an-electric-shower/p2

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214480#Comment_123214480

Thanks. Some good info there.