Are some songs just too good for radio?

Janet Cooper

I've noticed that even radio shows that are considered a good place to go to discover new or niche music, are quite reluctant to play recommendations I give that they haven't played before. I'm thinking of the likes of Late Date on RTE radio 1, or Mystery Train on Lyric. Late Date, I would argue, is still a little bit bland. And Mystery Train is the sort of thing where John Kelly could play a song that's 10 minutes of bells or static, or something like that... but maybe that's the audience. I do think that Late Date could be doing better. For example if they play an Elton John song they'll play Bennie and the Jets! I haven't scrutinised what Tom Dune plays very closely but I've no doubt he could be doing better too. John Creedon is very repetitive. RTE Gold and Radio Nova are great for the songs I like but I still don't discover anything new there. In all I have to wonder, could some songs just be too good for radio?

I don't mean to necessarily say that these song examples below are so good that you'll fall out of your chair or anything, but just that they would be refreshingly different. I've no doubt that some of the songs mentioned might have been played for a few weeks around the time when they came out, but perhaps never again after that! And I'm not saying that some of the artists mentioned don't get enough air play in general.

If you care to listen to any of the suggestions below, please share your thoughts on them.

6th Avenue Heartache (Wallflowers)
Blink of an Eye (Christopher Cross)
All Right (Christopher Cross)
Tuesday's Gone (Lynyrd Skynyrd)
If I Could Have Her Tonight (Neil Young)
Sunrise (The Who)
Love and Glory (Billy Idol)
The Last of the Famous (Morrissey)
Wait for Me (Hall & Oates)
Let's Go Baby (Wang Chung)
Down River (David Ackles)

New York State of Mind
Stiletto (Billy Joel)
Rosalinda's Eyes

Where to Now Saint Peter
Breaking Hearts
Idol (Elton John)

Boss of Me (David Bowie)
Strangers when we Meet
Isn't it Evening

Showtime (Ryan Adams)
Rollercoaster (Ryan Adams)
Rescue Blues (Ryan Adams)
In the Blue of the Night (Ryan Adams)

Please share an example of a song you consider to fit this category. Don't just post a song you like, but a song you think is under-appreciated.

machiavellianme

I wouldn't class a single one of those suggestions as too good for radio. I'm sure if you requested one of them from the likes of Nova, they might play it if they have it. Just because you like a bunch of deep cuts from a few bands doesn't mean they'll play them on rotation. They're pandering to the masses. They play more popular hits from all of those artists all the time. Too often in my view, but then I prefer hardcore punk, industrial metal and dark wave so I don't expect to hear anything decent on the radio.

Janet Cooper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123203316#Comment_123203316

Are you saying you'd already heard all those songs?

Are you saying that there is no such thing as "too good for radio"?

There's no way one of those songs would be played if requested, I've tried.

"They play more popular hits from all of those artists all the time" - Except Ryan Adams. No Irish station is willing to play anything by Ryan Adams

rpirl

Was in a chain store yesterday and 'The Caterpillar' by The Cure came on on their playlist... bit of a surprise to hear one of their lesser-known singles

Anyhow, amount of radio-friendly songs that exists happens to vastly outweigh the amount of radio airplay space that exists - radio decides what receives airplay based (mainly) on its own commercial interest

There's also the fact that a big chunk of the audience that turns on the radio does so to hear songs they already know... if a station throws too many curveballs at a listener they risk losing them

Janet Cooper

@rpirl radio decides what receives airplay based (mainly) on its own commercial interest

Well we already know that. I specifically said in the OP "radio shows that are considered a good place to go to discover new or niche music". So something like Late Date promotes itself as being open minded.

@rpirl amount of radio-friendly songs that exists happens to vastly outweigh the amount of radio airplay space that exists 

You word that in such a way that it seems like a good point, but it actually makes no sense. Lets suppose only 50 songs ever existed and you ran an hr long show 5 days a week, and on your first day of presenting you'd time to play 10 songs. Now suppose I asked you "how come you didn't play any of the other songs?" - you would explain that u only had so much time. But the problem is that if you then played the exact same 10 songs the next day, and the day after, and the day after that… then I'd finally be able to point out that there is in fact enough time to play some of the others.

It's like if a lady had a thousand dresses in her wardrobe and she wore the same dress every single day, with her rationale being "this is what people expect me to wear".

@rpirl There's also the fact that a big chunk of the audience that turns on the radio does so to hear songs they already know... if a station throws too many curveballs at a listener they risk losing them

That's only if the curve balls are sh1t. It's never been done so we don't know. I mean supposing somebody never heard 'Baby One More Time' before and then heard it for the first time on radio… of course they'd still be able to get in on it. Give people some credit.

Why can't it just be because the people selecting the songs are stuck in their ways and have no imagination? Seems like you're just arguing against me for the sake of it.

Janet Cooper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123203316#Comment_123203316

What would you class as too good a song for radio?

rpirl

The thing is, pop music (or rock ‘n’ roll or whatever one might call it) has been around for more than 60 years, so it’s an indisputable fact that the amount of radio-friendly music that exists is vast. But… you appear to be disputing it.

A lady and her dresses is not a sensible or useful comparison in any way. Commercial radio is a business and it’s becoming increasingly difficult for stations to make money so they are taking fewer and fewer risks with their playlists.

Looked at the Late Date playlists for this week and I know 90% of the artists. Even if it’s advertised as something different in practice it’s still fairly safe and built around artists who are fairly well-known and / or on the ‘right side’ of music critics.

You’re hoping someone will join you in having a go at the presenters of these shows?

“Give people some credit.”

The title of this very thread could be interpreted as a failure (by you) to give radio listeners credit.

magicbastarder

It's not that there are songs 'too good' for radio, but some songs aren't really suited for radio. Songs that take multiple listens to give up their secrets, for example, that aren't already well known.

Nova is the last station I'd go to - except for Niall McGuiness's show - to hear something new or novel.

Janet Cooper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123367977#Comment_123367977

Whether someone joins me is irrelevant. What I'm saying - for the third time - is that they insist on playing the same 20% of it over and over, and refuse to play good suggestions from the other 80%.

You're saying two different things. Firstly you say that there's so much music out there that it's literally not possible to play all of it. But then u contradict that by saying they don't play the deep cuts bcoz commercial radio is a business and therefore they have to play the bland music.

Cathal Murray of Late Date acts as if he's free to choose whatever music he wants. But before selecting a song, does he first have check what 'critics' said about a certain artist in the 70s? Would someone somewhere get offended by the choice of song?

It's no different from the movie business. Nearly everyone agrees that modern movies are sh1t. So if someone came along and said they can't make good movies because it's bad for business and that people would stop going to the cinema, it would be inaccurate. It's because the movie business doesn't have a clue what it's doing. it's somewhat the same with radio. They should sprinkle in a few better songs.

Janet Cooper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123367993#Comment_123367993

"Multiple listens to give up their secrets" - do you mean multiple listens to enjoy?? Why would you assume that all songs take multiple listens before one can enjoy it? Nearly all songs that I like, I liked them from the very start.

"some songs aren't really suited for radio". So can you explain to me why any of the songs I've posted wouldn't suit a show like Late Date?

magicbastarder

Why would you assume that all songs take multiple listens before one can enjoy it?

i didn't say that; didn't even come close to saying that.

it's quite possible that these shows get ten times as many requests as what they can fit in to the show.

Janet Cooper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123368378#Comment_123368378

Okay then, what did u say? What in the name of God does "Multiple listens to give up their secrets" mean?

magicbastarder

i'm out; you seem weirdly hostile about this.

Janet Cooper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123368392#Comment_123368392

What are you afraid of of?

I hate being right all the time!