Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 01/08/25*

Chewns1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123496998#Comment_123496998

Edit

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123496596#Comment_123496596

You’re not sure what changed? I told you what changed. You were wrong about the law and so was I. I believe @Goldengirl explained it quite well to you. I’m satisfied with her explanation, so I changed my mind.

Changing your mind when presented with facts is a strength, not a weakness.

I did an ChatGPT. I don’t always believe it and rarely use it. But it’s handy when there is nuance involved. I know nuance is lost on you sometimes, you like it black and white. But in this case it isn’t black and white.

In Ireland, it is not illegal to claim asylum without a valid passport. Both Irish and international law permit individuals to seek international protection regardless of their documentation status.

Legal Framework

Under the International Protection Act 2015, any person who applies for asylum in Ireland is granted permission to remain in the country while their application is processed. This applies even if the individual arrives without valid travel documents. Section 16(1) of the Act states that an applicant “shall be given” permission to remain for the purpose of examining their claim. 

This aligns with Ireland’s obligations under the 1951 Refugee Convention and EU law, which uphold the principle of non-refoulement—prohibiting the return of individuals to countries where they may face persecution.

Arrival Without Documents

While it is an offence under the Immigration Act 2004 to arrive in Ireland without valid travel documents, this provision is rarely enforced against asylum seekers. Historically, prosecutions for this offence have been extremely rare.  However, recent reports indicate a surge in prosecutions of asylum seekers arriving without passports. 

Despite this, the act of seeking asylum itself is not illegal, even if the individual lacks proper documentation. The legal system distinguishes between the administrative offence of arriving without documents and the fundamental right to seek asylum

Conclusion

In summary, while arriving in Ireland without valid travel documents may constitute an administrative offence, it is not illegal to claim asylum under such circumstances. Irish and international laws ensure that individuals have the right to seek protection, regardless of their documentation status.

ancapailldorcha

Precision with words is important. If people are going to pretend that Ireland is a Marxist state and that Simon Harris is a "Marxist philosopher", both claims that are patently untrue, it makes it very hard to take seriously the desperate conspiracy theories about NGOs, the great replacement and the other dreck endlessly peddled by the right.

Brian?

so in conclusion @Backstreet Moyes it may be an administrative offence, but it doesn’t give Ireland the power to immediately deport them because they have statutory rights that supersede it.

I’m perfectly happy with that answer

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497066#Comment_123497066

Your conclusion confirmed like I said that it is an offence to turn up with no valid ID.

I never said they couldn't claim asylum after illegally entering.

I never said Ireland has the power to deport them.

I said it is an offence to turn up without valid ID which you confirmed in conclusion.

I really have no idea why you are mentioning claiming asylum or the power to deport.

You asked was it illegal to turn without documentation, I provided you with the law that it was and your conclusion confirmed it to be true.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497165#Comment_123497165

I really tried to help you understand the nuance. You seem to be committed to ignoring it. Let’s leave it here.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497173#Comment_123497173

You arrive here without documents you are breaking the law.

You claim asylum and you are no longer breaking the law.

Please help me understand the nuance.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497056#Comment_123497056

Our far left wing nuts (people before profit) are self described Trotskyists.

A slightly different stream of Socialism that's really based in not wanting to be directly associated with the less palatable elements of Marxism proper.

Ireland isn't a Marxist state, and I don't recall anyone saying as much (is that a conspiracy theory or red herring designed to muddy the waters and demonise the "right"?), Ireland is becoming increasingly left wing in a more nebulous way, so marxism albeit watered down has some influence here now due to the increased support over the years for the far left in Ireland.

Not sure how Simon Harris figures into this as a Marxist scholar, did I miss something important?

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497066#Comment_123497066

What’s an “administrative” offence under Irish law? That’s you just trying to downplay the severity of it. It’s a criminal offence. Simple as.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497208#Comment_123497208

I did. You’re ignoring it. So I want to move on.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497385#Comment_123497385

again, please re read my previous post. It’s pretty bloody straightforward.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497369#Comment_123497369

A previous poster called our government a “Marxist government”. Which is stupid.

Why are you bring PBP into it? They have never had a sniff of power.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123496236#Comment_123496236

“Our Marxist government” is hilariously wrong.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497399#Comment_123497399

Nowhere in the post (which you got from chat gpt btw) does it explain what an “administrative” offence is.

Seems you had argued yourself into a corner and then tried to use chat gpt to find a way out of it.

Can you explain what an “administrative offence” is under Irish law?

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123496998#Comment_123496998

I used to be a Marxist, but I gave it up.

The subs were too expensive and the weekend retreats were too messy. All the champagne.

On top of that they’re blamed for everything while doing nothing.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497394#Comment_123497394

No you are wrong and are too stubborn to admit it.

It will take 30 seconds to explain what is incorrect in the below.

Your refusal to explain it and attempt to move on gives us the answer.

You arrive here without documents you are breaking the law.

You claim asylum and you are no longer breaking the law.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497409#Comment_123497409

Good luck. It’s clear what I meant. I’ve no interest in arguing with anymore.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497412#Comment_123497412

So we agree, people who have no documents and claim asylum are not illegal immigrants.

I don’t know why that took so long. But we got there in the end.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497416#Comment_123497416

The claim was that it was an offence to arrive without valid ID.

You confirmed yourself my statement was correct.

You are adding in extra context that was not discussed.

It is clear you are unwilling to admit you were mistaken.

So yes it is best if we move on.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495427#Comment_123495427

You are totally misrepresenting what I said - see Post 5761

I said that employers don't care if their employee owns a house or rents a house. You mentioning them not even having a place to live is total deflection and an attempt to muddy the waters.

Many of us on this discussion have concerns about non-Irish persons accessing the property market, especially when they are not long in the country.

Why should our children work hard, save and be priced out of the market because some tech company wants to hire somebody from somewhere else to tap some keys on a keyboard all day long? Sorry, no. As Irish people in Ireland, we deserve and are entitled to much better for our children.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123496533#Comment_123496533

Everyone who arrives without ID is breaking the law.

Seeking Asylum thereafter does not unbreak the law.

An offence has been committed. They have committed a crime. End of.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497632#Comment_123497632

I love when people are complete wrong and end their posts with “end of”.

It’s the kind of confident posturing the world needs more of.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497669#Comment_123497669

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2024/03/27/surge-in-prosecutions-of-asylum-seekers-arriving-without-passports/

In the article it states:

Last month, a Sudanese national was jailed for two months for the offence after a judge said he had to send out a “deterrent”.

Someone should tell the judge then he's complete wrong?

A Department of Justice spokesman said prosecutions are a matter for the Garda and Director of Public Prosecutions, which “are independent in their functions”.He said immigration officials are engaging with airlines “to underscore the importance of passengers possessing correct documentation and to provide support in helping them to reduce the number of passengers boarding flights without the correct documentation”.“These initiatives are having an impact with a sizeable reduction in the number of persons arriving at Dublin Airport without the correct documentation over the last year.”According to departmental figures, the number of people presenting without travel documents dropped by one third last year.

Wouldn't it be amazing if these 'initiatives' weren't just initiatives, but standard operating procedure. People doing their jobs isn't a big ask really, at the end of the day.

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123469044#Comment_123469044

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2025/0529/1515569-dundrum-tipperary/

Well well well, look what we have here. The governments propaganda machine finally has a news story on latest happening in Dundrum

The government must of let them of the leash but I feel it's promising this is happening and the gears are finally starting to turn and the Government may do a U-Turn

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123497811#Comment_123497811

Fair play to the folks of Dundrum. I hope they force the government to u-turn.

Leg End Reject

Mod: This isn't TripAdvisor, restaurant reviews and possible defamatory comments about a business are irrelevant to the topic. Think of it as "play the ball, not the man'.

Leg End Reject

Mod: Relevant posts deleted, if you're going to discuss someone's published opinions please do not drag their business into the discussion.

Gen.Zhukov

This report from the ESRI this week isn't getting the MSM coverage it deserves because it's scary…very scary.

https://www.esri.ie/news/new-esri-report-projects-that-public-acute-hospitals-will-need-to-increase-inpatient-bed

The rising demand for hospital services is largely driven by population growth and ageing. Ireland’s population is projected to increase from 5.3 million in 2023 to between 5.9 and 6.3 million by 2040, with the range reflecting differing assumptions on future migration trends. Importantly, the number of people aged 65 years and over will increase from 1 in 7 of the population in 2023 to 1 in 5 by 2040. This age group are particularly high users of hospital services, accounting for over 60 per cent of inpatient bed days in 2023.

If you search- 6800 new hospital beds needed by 2040 -you will find lots of articles that have reported on it (and their different ways of reporting) but nothing really on radio/TV c/a programmes in a…'There, we've done a report on it, now let's move on' kind of a way

One of the reports from Breaking news -

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/up-to-6800-new-inpatient-beds-may-be-needed-by-2040-report-finds-1767413.html

The ESRI research states that there will be a requirements for an additional 650 to 950 day patient beds by 2040 – a growth of between 25-37 per cent.

In addition, it projects a requirement for between 4,400 to 6,800 inpatient beds – an increase of between 40 per cent and 60 per cent.

This is not a 'it'll be grand' moment - It's just 15 years away!

Let's go with the inpatient requirements (somewhere in the middle of the 2 figures mentioned above) @ 5,600 extra beds required in 15 years time. TUH has approx 560 inpatient beds giving a very handy number of new hospitals needed at 10 to meet the ESRI's projections - Remind me again about Ireland's recent hospital building history

Now let's split that to what's needed in about 7 years - Going by the report we would need 5 hospitals by 2032/33 which is not going to happen obviously, so I foresee a complete meltdown of the HSE in 5-7 years, and I'd argue that it has started already - The public system will almost collapse and the private hospitals/system will become like the public system is today

RTE did a report on the news last evening about a cockup on the ICU bed front and sneakily (at the end) tacked on the lower figure above for the day patient beds needed of 650 to 950 by 2040 - They completely forgot to mention the higher number of inpatient beds needed of between 4,400 to 6,800 by 2040…the absent-minded little scamps…

…and they just went with 'patients beds' so Paddy and Mary won't be worried at all - well, until the time comes that is, and when that time does come, it won't be pleasant for Paddy or Mary

From RTE's report -

Minister for Health Jennifer Carroll MacNeill said the [ESRI] report "allows us to better anticipate future healthcare demand and capacity".

This, she said, will ensure "our health system evolves to meet the needs of our changing population".

Relax everyone - A FG health minister is on it

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123498405#Comment_123498405

Rte had an interview with someone from the ESRI on morning Ireland yesterday to discuss this report. Between 7am and 8am.

On their flag ship morning broadcast that is also broadcast on rte news now TV channel.

Pat Kenny then discussed this in his show on news talk yesterday morning.

The article was released yesterday the 29th by the ESRI and I can find information about it included in an article from the evening before (28th) from RTE.

But your claim is no MSM reported it.

Not only did RTE report on it they actually increased the hype be stating 7000 extra beds needed by 2040.

But it's a conspiracy right, MSM aren't reporting it.

EmergencyExit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123498405#Comment_123498405

Yeah zero about it on the RTE news website this morning. This is what happens when you get 728m euro to keep you in a job from the public purse. RTE reports the news they are instructed to report.