Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 01/08/25*

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123459780#Comment_123459780

All you've shown here is ignorance of the point I was making. The OP was trying to assert that you must be anti-illegal immigration in order to be a 'patriot'. There are lots of patriots who are pro legal immigration within a system that identifies where critical skills are in short supply in Ireland and responds to such.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123459269#Comment_123459269

If it's extremely difficult how come do many can do it?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123459780#Comment_123459780

Someone should tell Ireland's left wing politicians.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123459742#Comment_123459742

People can do whatever they want.

The problem I see is people are bamboozled by certain elements on social media to point their anger in the wrong direction. It only serves the government in the end. They get away with being incompetent

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123459713#Comment_123459713

Of course it is. It’s the “acting like thugs” part that’s wrong.

In order to point on one wrong, do I have to point out them all?

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123459759#Comment_123459759

You’ve answered my question with a series of questions. So I can only assume you haven’t a clue. You just like using the word “patriot” because it feels good.

FYI liberalism and communism are opposites.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123459868#Comment_123459868

Figures to support what exactly? Lots of people move to Ireland as skilled immigrants. We should welcome them with open arms. It’s difficult to qualify for one.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/moving-to-ireland/before-you-come-to-ireland/

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123460033#Comment_123460033

Excuse me, I wasn’t making any such point.

The anti immigration side have started referring to everyone at protests as “patriots”. I was asking what makes them patriots.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123460611#Comment_123460611

Is this a serious question? They qualify for a visa through sponsorship. You can look this up.

If you don’t have sponsorship, the door is closed to legal immigration.

The majority of people who come here illegally come for English colleges and overstay their visas. Again, the government doesn’t bother their hole to do anything about it.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123460742#Comment_123460742

apart from this snappy one liner, what’s your point?

Mass migration is loved by the neo liberals. Not for the good of the people.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123460033#Comment_123460033

The word "patriot" trotted out is when it's to do with people protesting immigration of any kind. It's a dogwhistle for far right thugs who attack people and destroy property.

If you really want to do something about immigration, I would advise starting a campaign group, using social media or lobbying your local TDs. Ideally all three.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123460972#Comment_123460972

My point is that the Irish left see no distinction between being liberals and communists.

See the likes of trans flags with Vladimir Lenin emblazoned on them for reference.

Snappy one liners have a place when they convey information efficiently.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123461070#Comment_123461070

That snappy one liner conveyed nothing.

”The Irish left” is insanely fractured. They couldn’t agree on where to go for lunch, never mind a political position on anything. It’s ridiculous to bundle everyone into one homogeneous group.

I find it amusing that you think being trans and being communist are mutually exclusive though. Trans isn’t a political position

1800_Ladladlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123450518#Comment_123450518

It might be worth looking at this survey for the recently created Garda oversight body, the Policing and Community Safety Authority, looking for what the public's priorities are when it comes to policing. The questions are relevant to this thread, tho some questions are as expected…

https://pcsa.prioritysimulator.com/

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123461122#Comment_123461122

Well plenty of people are happy to bundle the right together as well and we're supposed to take that at face value.

Like anyone critical of current immigration policy is a supporter of Conor McGregor, something that has been oft repeated here.

Spare me the moral grandstanding because saying people in Ireland who call themselves communists would also say they're liberal is pretty much dead on balls accurate to begin with.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123461433#Comment_123461433

We can agree generalising is wrong. Handy enough. But then you have to stop too.

“Spare me the moral grandstanding because saying people in Ireland who call themselves communists would also say they're liberal is pretty much dead on balls accurate to begin with.”

nonsense

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123461582#Comment_123461582

Show me a communist who is opposed to liberalism then.

Must have missed all the Conservative communists running around the place.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123461636#Comment_123461636

Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property, and equality before the law.

Very very little in common with communism, which places the good of the group above the rights of the individual.

I do not understand why you wouldn’t just look this up before posting something so stupid. Every communist is opposed property rights of the individual.

When you use the word “liberal” what I suspect you mean is “socially progressive”. People on the right and left can be socially progressive

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123461811#Comment_123461811

You're so excited by the opportunity to play the man you're ignoring the ball.

In the contemporary sense people who self identify as liberals tend to be on the left politically. People on the right can be socially progressive but tend not to prattle on about it as if they should be commended for it.

That's why I mentioned that you'll find people who are self described liberals also identifying with communism. That's why I said someone should tell them their ideologies are not aligned in the way they think.

The fact that anyone would think sticking Vladimir Lenin on a trans flag is a good idea is based on assumptions they're making that anything they agree with is inherently good and ignorance of the reality of a man who had an enormous amount of blood on his hands.

The modern left just ignores the failings of Socialism in the past and assumes following the same doctrines will work fine next time around.

That's why they need to be reminded of how wrong they are.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123461925#Comment_123461925

”You're so excited by the opportunity to play the man you're ignoring the ball.”

I’m only playing the ball. You’re wrong. I have no idea why you won’t admit you’re wrong. I have no interest in attacking you personally, I have no idea who you are or any memory of interacting with you in the past.

Varik

https://www.thejournal.ie/city-west-hotel-dublin-plans-to-purchase-migration-minister-6708224-May2025/

From stuff on "this week" on RTE earlier today.

Whole load of yelling at each other on it, and ignoring reality.

No real opposing view either as other guest is Labour party, apparently the Labour MEP O'Riordan has coolock people coming up to them saying "we're not all racist".

More grouping all migrants together, as if the IPAs are the exact same as any other migrants arriving under any other visa or visa free route.

Apparently no one tells the minister anything relevant to his own department, and this government is only new and therefore in no way repsosible for the failiures of the previous one whovere they may have been……….

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123460954#Comment_123460954

At 40k issued a year, it can't be that difficult

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123462244#Comment_123462244

Seriously? You’re being wilfully ignorant here. If it was easy we wouldn’t have 100k asylum seekers coming, 80% of whom are rejected. They’d simply get visas

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123457053#Comment_123457053

Or we could just not allow them to come in, in the first place. If Poland can do it we can too.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123462037#Comment_123462037

No, you said that what I posted was stupid. That's playing the man.

I'm agreeing that liberalism and communism are not the same things. I'm simply pointing out that the modern left don't see the difference.

You've been incredibly rude tbh, there was absolutely no need for it.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123462438#Comment_123462438

Plenty of intelligent people can say stupid things. What you said was stupid. I have no idea if you’re stupid, but you don’t appear to be. So that’s playing the ball, not the man.

Again you group “the modern left” together in one homogeneous group. I thought we agreed not to do that. I am part of the modern left and I definitely know the difference. Many people I discuss politics with know the difference.

“Liberal” has become equivalent to “socially progressive” as I said earlier. You mean “socially progressive” when you use it.

I haven’t been rude at all. I’ve been direct. I can’t help if you perceive that as rude, that’s how text works sometimes.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123462473#Comment_123462473

In all honesty, my perception is that you're completely missing the point.

Homogeneous groups are how everyone see's everything these days for better or worse.

There are communists in Ireland who will tell you that they're liberals, that's the way things are.

We can say that shouldn't be the case but it is.

I gave the example of the trans flags being waved at a pro trans rally in recent times in Merrion Square with Lenin's face on them. That's where we are, regardless of how you class yourself as a member of the modern left or how others you discuss political theory with classify things we have a cross pollenation of these ideologies that exists in the real world.

If you think pointing that out is stupid that's your problem to deal with.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123462516#Comment_123462516

I’m not missing the point, you’re just wrong.

Trans flags with Lenin’s face on them, so what? Does one have to be a “liberal” to support trans right now? Absolutely not.

For Petes Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123461070#Comment_123461070

Are you grouping ‘the left’ together under one umbrella?

1800_Ladladlad

A friend of mine posted a section from the International Protection Bill 2025 in the group chat

It deals with "Protection from sanctions" confirming that an asylum seeker who provides false information to the Chief Inspector when he/she is carrying out an inspection or investigating a complaint regarding the conditions etc in a designated asylum border facility CANNOT be subject to any sanction, disciplinary procedure or prosecution.

This of course, incentivizes lying to get international protection among other things but is this not what's been happening since 2000 anyway? Absolute scam artists spewing all sorts of lies. Even when the Social Democrats' candidate Ellie Kisyombe was found out to have lied, nothing was done.

Part 15: Chief Inspector of Asylum Border Procedures

Head 137: Protection from sanctions Provides that:

(1) (a) Subject to paragraph (b) where information, whether true or false, is provided to the ChiefInspector in relation to an inspection of a designated asylum border facility, the person who providesthe information shall not be subject to a sanction or other disciplinary procedure includingprosecution for an offence under head 135

(b) Paragraph (a) shall not apply to a person who is employed in a designated asylum border facilitywho, in the course of his or her official duties and in response to a request from the Chief Inspector, supplies false information deliberately and with intent to delay, obstruct or undermine the work ofthe Chief Inspector.

Page 209

https://assets.gov.ie/static/documents/General_Scheme_International_Protection_Bill_2025.pdf

Mod Edit: Warned for ignoring mod instruction regarding anecdotes