Socket for Oven

LarryBarry

Could anybody with experience or knowledge advise on below? Thanks in advance

• Oven & Hob on same 32amp circuit. Designer has applied diversity. Oven has come with a 13amp plug & a single socket has been added adjacent the cooker connection unit behind the oven/under the hob. The 32amp circuit is not RCD protected. Due to the socket now added to the circuit is there a requirement to protect the 32amp circuit with RCD?

LarryBarry

anybody 😂

Hoagy

Sockets used as isolation for fixed appliances do not require RCD protection provided measures are taken to prevent their use for general purposes.A warning notice should be fitted adjacent to the socket.

So if the socket is inaccessible an RCD is not required.

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123042783#Comment_123042783

can you back this up and point the relevant regulation out. Cheers.

Hoagy

Yes, it's 554.4.2 page 336

LarryBarry

Hi Thanks for that

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123043817#Comment_123043817

thanks for that Hoagy

I’m just playing devils advocate here now for discussion purposes

would an integrated fridge, microwave ,dishwasher,washing machine,kitchen extractor fan etc be considered under the same category as per your previous post

“Sockets used as isolation for fixed appliances do not require RCD protection provided measures are taken to prevent their use for general purposes.A warning notice should be fitted adjacent to the socket.

So if the socket is inaccessible an RCD is not required.”

Hoagy

But the rule only concerns fixed appliances rather than integrated.

My post was referring to this particular oven socket in the OP being inaccessible.

I'm involved in new builds and this situation arises quite often. The alternative is to remove the plug top and connect the oven directly through a joint box.

Wearb

The alternative is to remove the plug top and connect the oven directly through a joint box.

In such an instance, I suppose it would be necessary to provide a fused spur, to maintain the 13A rating of the provided cable?

Hoagy

Yes it would.

meercat

thanks Hoagy

And what determines a fixed appliance

Would an integrated appliance (microwave,dishwasher etc)that has to be unscrewed be any different from an oven that also has to be unscrewed.

You say that if a socket is inaccessible it doesn’t need rcd protection

Hoagy

No, I said that the socket described in the OP, in the particular location behind the oven and below the hob, would be considered sufficiently inaccessible to satisfy the quoted rule. I would go no further than that.

Whether the rule could be applied in other cases would be a matter for the REC involved.

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123042783#Comment_123042783

sorry hoagy about delay getting back to you on this. I see you quoted the relevant regulation thanks but I think you have misinterpreted it.

“554.4.2 circuits supplying socket outlets provided for the isolation of fixed equipment in accordance with 537.2 need not be protected by RCDs provided effective measures have been taken to prevent their use for general purposes.
Note :
such equipment includes motors and fluorescent lamps

A suitable warning notice shall be provided at location”

The important part of this paragraph is that it's for isolation of fixed equipment in accordance with 537.2

The oven (as an appliance)doesn't comply with the fixed equipment category as per examples given in the regulation

Therefore a socket in this case needs RCD protection. However ,as you've already stated a fused spur outlet would comply with regulations.

LarryBarry

For further discussion & to follow up Meercat's last point, In 554.0 it notes except where specifically exempted in 554.4. Such outlets are not intended for general use e.g. for the connection of appliances.

Would the note "e.g. for connection of appliances" cover the proposed installation for Oven noted above considering the socket is not intended for general use & for a connection of an appliance

554.0 General
Plugs and socket-outlets for industrial and similar applications are standardized according to I.S. EN 60309 in
CENELEC member countries. They are obtainable with ratings of 16 A, 32 A, 63 A and 125 A. They are also intended
for general use outdoors where rough usage is expected such as on construction sites and on farms.
In certain circumstances, isolation may be required for industrial socket outlets.
Socket-outlets for general purposes indoors shall comply with I.S. 411 or BS 1363-2 as appropriate. Such socket-outlets
may be installed outdoors in domestic and similar locations provided they are contained in enclosures with
a degree of protection IP 54, and provided they will not be subjected to harsh conditions or rough usage.
Non-standard types of plugs and socket-outlets are permissible for special applications (see 554.5). Circuits
supplying socket-outlets require protection by 30 mA RCDs except where specifically exempted in 554.4. Such
outlets are not intended for general use e.g. for the connection of appliances.
For agricultural and horticultural installations (Clause 705), additional requirements for RCD protection apply.

Hoagy

Well I can't argue with that, so I won't try to.

LarryBarry

Meercat, What are your thoughts on below?

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123061079#Comment_123061079

on what?

LarryBarry

For further discussion & to follow up Meercat's last point, In 554.0 it notes except where specifically exempted in 554.4. Such outlets are not intended for general use e.g. for the connection of appliances. 

Would the note "e.g. for connection of appliances" cover the proposed installation for Oven noted above considering the socket is not intended for general use & for a connection of an appliance

554.0 General
Plugs and socket-outlets for industrial and similar applications are standardized according to I.S. EN 60309 in
CENELEC member countries. They are obtainable with ratings of 16 A, 32 A, 63 A and 125 A. They are also intended
for general use outdoors where rough usage is expected such as on construction sites and on farms.
In certain circumstances, isolation may be required for industrial socket outlets.
Socket-outlets for general purposes indoors shall comply with I.S. 411 or BS 1363-2 as appropriate. Such socket-outlets
may be installed outdoors in domestic and similar locations provided they are contained in enclosures with
a degree of protection IP 54, and provided they will not be subjected to harsh conditions or rough usage.
Non-standard types of plugs and socket-outlets are permissible for special applications (see 554.5). Circuits
supplying socket-outlets require protection by 30 mA RCDs except where specifically exempted in 554.4. Such
outlets are not intended for general use e.g. for the connection of appliances.
For agricultural and horticultural installations (Clause 705), additional requirements for RCD protection apply.

meercat

I’ve nothing additional or useful to add to this other than to direct anyone else with the same query back to post #13

LarryBarry

Ok so there is no relevance that it mentions appliances? e.g. for the connection of appliances

Lenar3556

Is there anything in the current standard which specifically prohibits RCD protection on cooker circuits? Modern hobs / ovens shouldn’t give rise to any nuisance tripping.