A Loco-Hauled 'What if' Question

ArcadiaJunction

Please forgive my ignorance. I saw a IE diesel hauling some DMU railcars recently. For repair I assume. It got me thinking…

Suppose a situation arose whereby say the new hybrid DARTs or the existing DMUs were no longer able to function properly due to power issues, could they be converted into loco hauled trains in an emergency? Apart from making them move, I am thinking about brakes, heating, lighting, doors and so on?

L1011

Would require extensive re-work; and probably need a generator van also as head-end power doesn't work well on the 201s / doesn't exist on other locos. We don't have piles of spare generator vans.

Converting the useless 8200 DART units in to loco hauled carriages was briefly investigated, and found to be too expensive to be worth it.

Losty Dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122996821#Comment_122996821

The modern DMU's have auxilary engine and generator for on board electrics. As such, supply for light and heat shouldn't be an issue. What they would need is either it's hauling loco with a cab console to map that on a DMU, the DMU to map the loco console or for a loco to top and tail. This has been done before with the old 201 class and AEC railcars. More recently the 26/27/2800 class DMU are all capable of multiple working; indeed I believe that they can all work with a 29000 as well.

Incidentally, the cost of obtaining new locomotives to do this (There isn't enough 201's on hand to utilise a push pull service on this basis.) will far exceed the cost of obtaining new DMU's. There are also speed limits and safety cases at play that would render it less than practical.

Hotblack Desiato

Did IE ever get any money back from Alstom for those useless 8200s?

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123348603#Comment_123348603

Given the public procurement incompetence in this country, unlikely anything.

Might have gotten small amount for scrap.

Board Walker

there is a lack of loco also

Wexbud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123362188#Comment_123362188

201's having to be swapped over from freight to Cork and Belfast services doesn't help either, freight haulage doesn't have a steady fleet. And the age of the locos is another going in for routine inspections and maintenance. 071s are 50 yo, 201s are going through their 30th years. today 16th April one Cork and one Belfast had technical issues aboard this morning

Board Walker

Is the solution to buy more DVT's for the MK4 sets? I think its certainly the cheaper option

PlatformNine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123378912#Comment_123378912

If I understand your question, not quite, they would have they buy a specially designed loco that happens to look like the DVTs. DVTs are unpowered units that are able to control a powered unit, so without a loco a mk4 set wouldn't have any motive power.

Now buying a Mk4 Locos could be considered an option, especially since it would leave the option for the loco to be tri-mode, dual-mode, etc. However when looking at any locos, they are likely going to want to standardise the fleet since they only have so many locos across both the passenger and freight fleet, and I don't believe IE wants to have a few unique locos. A large problem with unstandardised fleets, especially here because of our unique track gauge, is it makes ordering, buying, manufacturing, and commissioning new units a massive head ache.

Truthfully I think when the 201s reach end-of-life, thats it for loco hauled passenger services for IE. Most countries are switiching to MUs because they tend to be much better all around for passenger services, and I can't imagine IE will be any different.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123379636#Comment_123379636

Truthfully I think when the 201s reach end-of-life, thats it for loco hauled passenger services for IE. Most countries are switiching to MUs because they tend to be much better all around for passenger services, and I can't imagine IE will be any different.

I could be totally wrong and better informed posters here might correct me, but I remember a poster in the past mentioning that 20 years ago, Irish Rail really wanted to go railcars for the Cork service, but ended up with the Mark 4's because the 201's were so relatively new at the time and hadn't much else to do but the Enterprise.

I don't think the 201's have been a particularly successful purchase and I'd say IR don't want to repeat it with the Enterprise and eventual Mark 4 replacements.

I don't think the Enterprise replacement is due to enter service until 2030, so a Mark 4 replacement would be after that. That would put the Mark 4's at 25 years or more, which is the same length the Mark 3's lasted.

Of course that will have some people complaining about them being scrapped before their time, but I think overall IR would benefit to move to an all multiple unit operated fleet for their passenger trains.

PlatformNine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123380430#Comment_123380430

I don't think the Enterprise replacement is due to enter service until 2030, so a Mark 4 replacement would be after that. That would put the Mark 4's at 25 years or more, which is the same length the Mark 3's lasted.

My current expectation is that IE will try to get their 40 years from the 201s, ideally getting the fleet to at least 2034-2035. But that between the enterprise set entering service and the Mk4 replacement entering service, they will order additional units to supplement the existing fleet, with the added bonus that if the Mk4s or 201s suddenly start to break down, they can be replaced. I believe this is somewhat how they are ordering the new DART fleet.

My reasoning being is that while they will likely want to replace the Mk4s shortly after the Enterprise for a list of good reasons, they also are just desperately in need of more IC stock. D+ and the Enterprise should help somewhat, freeing a few ICRs for intercity work, and potentially allowing some 29Ks to take over shorter regional or outer commuter services currently being covered by ICRs(Kildare services for example). But even then with the Tuam and Navan lines, and the push for more frequent services (hourly IC in particular) I don't think the current fleet is enough.

end of the road

my understanding about the mk4 situation is that the new head who came in either around the time or not long after the time they came in to service stated that only that they had been ordered and were in service he wouldn't have gone ahead with the order.