Indifference of DART Irish Rail to good customers - denied appeal for "fixed payment notice"

grlawicr

Dear all,

I have been using the DART regularly for over 20 years, including the tag-on tag-off system with the LEAP card since that was implemented. Despite certainly flakey aspects of this system, including delays at exit queues in Pearce St. (presumably elsewhere) due the laggy tag-off registration of the cards and other mild annoyances, I generally don't mind it and religiously tag on and off for years.

Well - last month I got checked as I have many times - and thought nothing of it as I always tag on. However, this time it seems I did not tag on successfully for some reason at my usual commuter station in Monkstown. Not sure what happened, and I was issued a so called "fixed payment notice". After some discussion with the ticket officer I followed their advice to send an email appeal explaining if they checked my record they would see that I'm a regular, reliable customer for years with consistent check on/off behaviour. I said I didn't understand what happened in this case, but could they waive the €101 fee as an act of good will towards a reliable, good customer. I provided all my card etc. details which they could check to verify my many transactions over the last months and years if they wanted.

The response: No way, no how. I was sent a long email of cut/paste boiler-plate statutory responsiblity verbage and summarily denied my appeal with no further recourse permited, 2 weeks to comply with the fine. There was no check or accomodation of my longstanding good track record, just a check of the station record of the day, which I was not disputing in any event - clearly the card did not tag on correctly.

Nice way to treat your good customers.

PS. Id' say easily half the people that exit with me in Monktown at the end of the day don't tag-off. Do they all have yearly passes? I somehow doubt it.

Dear Mr XYZ,
Thank you for your Email in relation to fixed payment notice 556968 RN 520987 issued to you on the 22nd of November 2024.
Upon investigating the fixed payment notice you did not have a valid ticket to travel. Please see below.
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The facilities where operational at your station to tag your leap card before travel, please see below.
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Please note that you must tag on and off with your leap card, see below.
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It is each customer’s responsibility to ensure they have a valid ticket when he or she boards a train to travel and allow themselves sufficient time to purchase a ticket or tag on a leap card this is something we have advertised in our trains and stations extensively over recent years.
 
Once you entered the station platform you had entered a compulsory ticket area and was liable for the issue of a fixed payment notice should you be unable to produce a valid ticket showing that your fare has been paid. 
 
The Revenue Protection Officer was correct in issuing the fixed payment notice issued to you under the Railway Safety Act 2005 section 132 (2) (a) “failure to deliver up a valid ticket”.
 
For the reasons stated above I cannot negate the fixed payment notice which was correctly issued to you. With this in mind I regret to advise that the appeal has been unsuccessful.  Therefore, payment of €102.15 is required to be discharged within 14 days.
 
Payment can be made by Debit Card Online at https://fpn.irishrail.ie.
 
It only remains for me to advise in future when travelling on our services that you must be in possession of a valid ticket/leap card for inspection on board by a revenue protection officer and at barrier gates at your destination station.
 
The decision of the appeals committee is final, no further correspondence will be entered into with regard to this appeal.
 
Yours sincerely,
Carla
Appeals Section,
Revenue Protection Unit,
 
 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
 
Fpn 556968
Rn 520987
 
Leap card ID:XXXXYYYYZZZZZ 
Dear Ianrod Eireann
 
On Friday November 22 I rode the DART from Monkstown Salthill station to Grand Canal. I tagged on with my Leap card as I regularly do on my way to work at Trinity College.  A ticket checker at Grand Canal found that my tag on had not registered. 
 
I don't know what happened in this instance but I would like to request that no fine be levied as I am a regular weekly customer for many years that my record should show that I routinely tag on and off.  
 
Thank you for considering my request. 
 
Regards 

Yvonne007

It's a pretty much open and shut case though.

You didn't have a valid ticket.

3DataModem

the argument should have been “I tagged on as normal, but it doesn’t seem to have registered, others had the same problem as me” not “I messed up but come on bro”

they don’t have any capacity to waive it for compassionate reasons, only technical

AndrewJRenko

Probably too late now but you could have done a GDPR request for any CCTV footage of you in the first station to see if you did actually use the tag machine.

bikeman1

I’m not really sure what you are trying to achieve by writing an essay on here? You didn’t have a valid ticket.

Also you were required to tag on and off every other time too. You don’t get any special treatment for that, as that is what you had to do. Make sure you tag on in the future.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122940908#Comment_122940908

They aren't looking for special treatment for tagging on/off in the past. They are making the point that they constantly comply with the requirements, as a look at the history of their card would show. They likely complied on the day in question too but for whatever reason, it didn't work. Their argument is that the problem was on IÉ's side. Not saying that that excuse should be a "get out of jail free" card as it would be abused to hell but a look at the passenger's history would indicate who is genuine.

From a similar experience in another country, my consistent use of the system was acknowledged by the operator in a similar situation. And that particular operator has a very bad reputation on such issues but they were willing to look at passenger history.

Stonekeeper2024

Most of you guys would (and possibly do?) work wonders as staff of the HSE or DSP, the most inflexible organizations known to mankind. Logic, facts, reality, common sense, have no relationship to their decisions.

Right down to the description of it as an 'essay'…seriously APPLY TO THE DSP they'll hire you! You can spend all day making decisions that totally defy common sense! Since that's most of what they do there.

Rigid thinking is the name of the game. How about some 3D thinking here? Instead of (smarmy tone) "well T.E.CH.N.I.C.A.L.L.Y you didn't have a valid ticket (farts into martini glass, smells it)".

Whats the purpose of the revenue protection system? To ensure people pay their fares or have a valid pass that belongs to them, in order to protect the revenue of the service. Who are the people they are targeting with this? The small number of people who ride a lot but never pay, and we all know who they are, they practically wear a uniform. Yeh sure some 'well dressed' people do evade the fare, just like some well dressed people shoplift expensive clothes because it gives them a buzz, but they are not the main cohort of shoplifters.

Why do they hammer you with a 100euro fine? Instead of making you pay the fare? The same reason shops bar shoplifters, they assume you robbed way more than you were caught with, so you are too big a risk, as with the fares they have to make it a big disincentive. Does a person who pays their fare daily and made an error need such a massive disincentive? A person who pays the normal way and screwed up once is not the target of revenue protection. If they can see that the person regularly pays they should keep that persons details in the system and let it go.

If the regulations don't allow this they should. It's not compassionate grounds as one poster phrased it, it's run of the mill technical grounds. I see a load of people mistarget their cards all the time, people who WORK in the system should bloody know this instead of acting like robots. They are late for work and racing through, with noise cancelation earphones on listening to some podcast and don't see that the thing did not capture. Yes yes they are an adult and the onus is on them to make sure, but also…you know…the real world? Where people are rushed and make mistakes?

They should be able to distinguish between genuine mistakes and someone taking the mick. I remember one time a fare checker on the Luas asked me for my card and I gave it to him thinking yeh whatever sure then he looked at his machine and said "you topped up but didn't tag on" and he saw from the visible jolt that went thorough me that it was a genuine case of forgetting it. He held the door for me while I tagged it an let it go.

Be human. Not a public sector worker, about things (sorry I'm bitter, from long experience!).

bikeman1

So you have not tagged on twice that you have been caught. I wonder how many other times you “forgot” or didn’t ensure you had tagged on properly.

It is literally down to you to make sure you tag on. For years we had to queue to a ticket desk, get the change together and wait as tickets were physically printed off.

All anyone has to do now is listen for the tag on sound and see it flash up on the machine. You can also subsequently verify with the TFI leap card app.

The system has to be tough, otherwise it would be a joke with a myriad of excuses like saying I’m too busy and life and whatever.

Tag on and go about your journey.

I have been at a station one evening and there was no functioning tag on pole, so I did a quick video in case I was stopped.