New Leaving Cert Reform

Treppen

Ok ... Leaving aside all the ASTI Vs TUI banter.

How do people feel about these reforms?

Ive been talking to a colleague who went on Oide training for their subject. Basically it's JC 2.0 with very little detail and a lot of "but we do this anyway, it's just a better way" indoctrination.

I recall the same stress in the JC when details on the exam weren't forthcoming. I can park that for the moment, we have enough exam papers and text books now to get back to preparing students properly. But for the Leaving Certificate I don't think it's good enough to be scant on detail for assessment that's coming down the line in 2 years!

I think we should make our feelings known in the training and feedback if they're going to treat us like idiots and pat us on the heads and tell us not to worry about exams.

HazeDoll

We've had the whole-school thing and it was painful. It's almost comical to see them making the same mistakes that were made with the JC.

Lots of stupid new buzzwords - 'Student dimensions' was one that stuck in my head.

No information. Not one fact that you could take away from it and tell yourself, 'Well, at least I know something about the new course."

The two dynamic high-fliers who were delivering it were, understandably, very defensive and kept saying things like, "That will all be made clear, that's not what today is about." The minute it was over they got the hell out of there like a dodgy ref running for the tunnel while blowing the final whistle.

I almost feel sorry for these eejits who are encouraged, presumably by principals who want to see the back of them, to apply for these jobs.

I'm always interested to hear them saying "It's a move away from the rote learning that was no indication of ability or intelligence."

I never miss the opportunity to ask them if there was much rote learning in their subject. They always say "Well, no…" and I always say, "No, not in mine either. Which subjects have a lot of rote learning, do you think?" I've never had a clear answer yet.

When the new LC comes in, the trick will be to just stop caring. There's no point in fighting it.

Treppen

Would it be true to say it's the exact same crew from the JCT?

rainbowtrout

You do realise that the people presenting don't have any more information on the new form of assessment than you do?

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122863358#Comment_122863358

Oh I know. What intrigues me is that somebody thought those empty vessels needed to waste half a day of MY time making it clear that nobody knows anything.

We would have been in exactly the same position, in terms of preparing for a new course, if we had just gone paintballing.

TheValeyard

In my professional opinion.....it's a complete clusterfcuk.

They have finished fcuking up the JC, so now it's time to fcuk up the LC!

Dickie10

I have a feeling that because the new junior cycle is so dumbed down and generalised in most subjects that the gap between JC and LC are now such a gaping divide that the powers that be are scrambling to get the new LC dumbed down so that students are not totally lost in 5th year.

dory

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122863485#Comment_122863485

Yes. This is what was said to us when we mentioned the gap at JC training. We were told to just hang on….they'd get to the LC soon.

Treppen

Im finding students are really crashing because of the gap with the dumbed down junior cert Vs leaving cert. There has never been so many school refusals in our school. Academic demands are just too much to cope.

Makes sense to dumb down the leaving cert now to cover up the train wreck. They'll have to run catch up courses in 1st year of college . Unless that can be dumbed down too.

HazeDoll

We have a huge number of school refusers, mostly kids who discovered at about this point in 5th yr that getting a merit at JC level (55 - 75%) might actually mean that you're not very good at the subject. Unable to work independently, unable to take criticism, and unable to commit to the kind slog of that might earn them a pass at higher level for the LC, they are staying home instead. Parents are terrified that putting pressure on them will tip them over the edge so the kids sit down in front of the playstation in their jammies and get dinners handed to them.

It's one of those things that seems to be an adolescent phenomenon too, in that in strikes in waves and usually hits multiple members of the same group of friends.

When the LC standards and expectations are lowered to meet the JC, this crisis will strike in the first year of third level instead. Something for parents who will be forking out for student accommodation to look forward to!

Treppen

about 4 years ago we had 1 school refulsal , now it's ten, and possibly growing

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122871039#Comment_122871039

In a LC year of about 150 I think we have five or six total refusers and about another 10 who will only come in for double art classes and won't do homework. There a few in 5th yr but I expect the number will go up when the christmas tests come around.

At this stage, it better for the rest of the class if they stay away. I have no idea how I'd cope if the ones in my class suddenly decided they wanted help to catch up. I just don't have time.

I sound very flippant and callous but I really do despair. These kids have absorbed the message that their mental health is paramount and doing anything they don't want to do is damaging to their mental health. They're are academically adrift because the JC has not prepared them for anything that happens in the LC.

Their parents live in fear of finding a suicide note. The easiest thing to do is to blame the school or 'the system' for not meeting their kids' needs.

Treppen

Ya it's a tricky one alright, I do feel for the parents though, just from talking to them myself they are at wits end. Some have had to leave work, get into the psychotherapy loop, try to get into camhs and jigsaw and pieta.

Maybe it's a post COVID phenomenon that will dissipate into the next thing.

But definitely it's when things get tough academically that the slide happens,

Dickie10

it is i think a symptom of the woke era and mental health being pushed to front of agendas so much, sometimes over the top sometimes justified. were heading into a more reactionary era in the world probably going to be dominated by war like it has since 2022 but headed for a more global conflict, id expect thing like mental health and climate/eco stuff to be put on back burner again, this will lead to a sink or swim for many kids. for students and teens from solid upbringing and used to hard work and well rounded kids into their sports and general good personalities the world could be there oyster, the amount of these type of teens seems to dwindling at a huge rate, particularly in some schools, other country type middle class schools seem to have lots of the same solid, GAA, farming background kids being turned out that seem to have their heads screwed on, from the school i am in that seems he way anyhow them and Asian students seem be thriving.

pandoraj09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122870815#Comment_122870815

Great post! That was exactly whats was happening in my school until I had enough and got out early. When students and parents were able to email us directly it was the beginning of the end for me. Day after day and evening after evening I was fielding emails about stressed students unwilling to knuckle down and work. They "weren't able" for a subject usually meant they just didn't want to put in the work to get to grips with it. We provided them with free afterschool study and 2 showed up each day. Attendance and punctuality were getting worse and worse and senior management changing every few years as young whizkids took the top jobs then left to go to a bigger school.