Buying land with dead forestry on it - can I take the forestry out?

epicmoe

Thinking about offering my neighbour some cash for about two and a half acres of forested land he has. It was under a grant years ago, and is all ash. It died I’d say at least ten years ago now. It’s just left standing like that. Could I buy the land and rip the dead trees out and convert it to farm land again?

if I have to reforest, what would be the planting density? like could I plant an orchard in it? or blueberry bushes?

accidental forester

As no one else has piped up on this, I'll throw in my two cent's worth. The basic rules stipulate that forestry over ten years old can't be "bought out", ie. payback the grants and premiums and you can do what you like with it. After ten years, it's forestry forever. Now I stand to be corrected that there may be exceptions for failed ash plantations. There were/are schemes that will partially fund the removal and replacement of ash plantations. Different schemes require different densities, the Teagasc website outlines them all.

It it's close to you, it could become a great asset. Also, it sounds like you'd be a long while before running out of firewood.

blue5000

Try and find out if agroforestry is a possibility. On 2.5 acres you only need 400 trees, you could graze the rest.

https://www.teagasc.ie/crops/forestry/grants/agroforestry/

Donald Trump

You need a felling licence to cut any tree in the country unless it/you fall under an exemption.

A felling licence to cut down an area of trees, even small, such as you are talking about would invariably have a replanting condition in it.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122858561#Comment_122858561

Don't think you need a felling licence for dead trees?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122858614#Comment_122858614

If it was as simple as that, any previously good land which was planted could be bought for cheap and with a small investment in glyophospate (or whatever was needed) it could be reverted to farmland a year or two later.

Or buy an almost mature plantation, fell it, replant, and then two years later spray the replanted trees off and revert to farmland.

So I don't think such a "loophole" would exist.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122858989#Comment_122858989

I'm not to hot on reading and understanding the law but my understanding is there is a felling exception for diseased trees.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122859031#Comment_122859031

There definitely is for ones that are along the side of the road. Probably any that are dangerous.

I don't think you'd get away with clearfelling trees. If you could, we wouldn't have had all the organisations calling for farmers who had plantations decimated with dieback to be allowed to revert back to farmland. Because they could have just done it on the quiet.

timfromtang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122858561#Comment_122858561

It seems to me that a felling licence is a non issue in this case. Easily applied for and certain to be granted if you are felling a diseased crop and replanting. There is grant aid available for the costs of the operation. This applies even if the replanting is an agroforestry planting.

We are removing 10Ha of diseased ash at the moment here in Tang, we get €2000/Ha for site clearance (we are doing the work ourselves), the costs of replanting are covered by the grant and will be drawn down by our forestry company who will look after the replanting. When the work is complete we will get the €5000/Ha (albeit miserable in comparison to our lost increment) over the following 3-4 years.

Get yourself a forester and discuss your options.

tim

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122859602#Comment_122859602

The OP's question is not in relation to replanting. He wants to fell but not replant.

My answer is that in order to fell the trees, he would need a licence. And that a condition of that licence would be to replant. Although, and am open to correction on this, as someone else posted, he might be able to replant as agroforestry rather than a "dense" plantation

timfromtang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122859625#Comment_122859625

The replanting condition already exists if it is a grant aided plantation.

Since the op clearly wants to use the land it would seem to me that doing things by the book and converting to agroforestry would be the best option. It will be a reasonable quality piece of land if it was planted with Ash and should perform very well under agroforestry producing both grass and high value trees.

With a forester and a felling licence you can be assured that you are doing things properly and not making expensive mistakes. Forestry can make 7% per annum on well managed quality sites. It would be difficult to achieve similar financial yields from farming.

Agroforestry is what is says on the tin, optimised for both grass and timber production, trees are spaced to suit grass machinery if required and the trees will yield a big chunk of change when they are ready. A higher value species like cherry would work on land suitable for Ash and will yield a valuable crop of sawlog on a 50 year rotation. A smart lad might use this extra yield to cover costs at farm sucession time. If the crop on the agroforestry can be "spaced out in age" over time potentially the 2.5 acre plot in question could produce 20 quality trees every 5 years. During the "spacing out in age" process there would be small yields of timber as lower quality stems are removed and replanted with young ones. This approach would also mean that one of the main problems with agroforestry (excess shading of grassland as trees get bigger) is mitigated, with trees of all ages on the plot.

tim