Can I appeal a speeding letter

1994_43

Hi all,

Just wondering about GoSafe speed vans and about going to court regarding appealing?

I was travelling today on the N78 and seen a sign for 100km/h coming out of castlecomer. I was doing that and below along the road. I came to a speed van and at that time I was going 97km/h as I had still presumed it was a 100km/h zone. My partner checked Google maps and it had 80km/h on it so on the way back we checked for speed signs. It was indeed an 80km/h zone although, the speed sign which indicated the drop before where the speed van was sitting was facing the hedge.

My question is, is there any way of appealing this? Yes, I was technically speeding but it was unknown to myself as it was impossible to see the sign showing the drop from 100km/h down to 80km/h.

I will upload an image of the sign from the opposite direction in where you can see it facing inwards.

The 80km/h is facing into the farmyard.

drunkmonkey

First thing stop using google maps and switch to Waze, You're not defintely caught either, your car is proabably over reading the speed a little and there's nothing to say the camera was rolling at the time.

I'd get better picturtes of the road and signs if you're going to argue it, you can't depend on google speeds you can only go by the signs.

User1998

Of course you can appeal it

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122741953#Comment_122741953

Is waze reliable for speed vans? I've had it installed for years but haven't used it as wasn't sure it could be that reliable given how frequently the vans move and the apps dependence on people registering things manually

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122742476#Comment_122742476

Yes seems to be very reliable, unless you're the 1st to notice something. It all depends on people using it and reporting things, can be very useful for avoiding obstacles on the road, like trees this evening etc.

Lenar3556

Firstly, wait and see if you were in fact detected, and if you receive a fixed charge notice.

If you do, you have the option to state your case to the Garda fixed charge processing office. If this is unsuccessful, it is open to you to defend the charge in court.

However, speeding is a strict liability offence, and the absence of signage, as unfair as this may be, is not a defence to the charge.

I would by all means try to have the notice cancelled, but if this fails, pay the thing and move on.

JVince

The only thing the go safe van does is to record the speed of every vehicle passing.

The footage is then sent to Thurles garda station which manages the traffic fines system.

A garda there reviews the footage and issues the fixed penalty notices.

At 97 - probably clocked at 94/95, it's borderline whether you get a ticket.

If you do, you have strong grounds for it being quashed if you have the photo. But it may need a judge and a morning in court as it's very difficult for a garda to squash a ticket.

You could pre-emt it and write to the "member in charge" Fixed penalty division, Thurles garda station. Give them details of time, date and direction you were traveling along with the picture - it might persuade them to set the base speed to 100 for that session

cml387

Is that the only sign indicating 80km/h? Because I rather doubt it.

Dex Dexta

Was the sign at the other side of the road also obscured?

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122742476#Comment_122742476

Waze is the bomb. I've only been using it for a few months, but I have yet to come across a speeding van that wasn't already showing on Waze first. I have had a small few instances where speed vans were noted on Waze but there was no van so presumably they had moved on.

Although it is worrying at the start when it's showing as police present.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122749235#Comment_122749235

Even to show where a van could be is very useful in itself. I found waze very useful in foreign countries for navigation but haven't used it much here as it makes steam come out of my phone.

But after a close encounter with a well hidden speed van on the motorway last week, it's about time I steam up my windshield with waze again

mikeecho

Your only way to appeal it, is to not pay, and go to court.

The days of tickets being cancelled are well and truly over.

Go to court, with a solicitor, with your evidence, plead not guilty, and submit your evidence.

That is the only way.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122750902#Comment_122750902

He has nothing to appeal, he hasn't even got a notice yet!

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122750943#Comment_122750943

And I gave instructions on the only way to appeal.

Dex Dexta

Was the sign at the other side of the road also obscured?

I’m not so wise as them lawyer guys, but if it comes to court I imagine that’s what the judge will ask.

The minimum you would need is photo(s) taken from the approach side showing both signs.

User1998

Wouldn’t a solicitors fees be more than the fine itself?

Lenar3556

It would, and in any case the absence of signage is not a defence to a charge of speeding.

Schorpio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122752072#Comment_122752072

Not disputing this (I have no idea if it's true), but how is this logical?

If I'm in an unfamiliar area, and someone had stolen the signs at the point where the speed limit changed, how would I be expected to know that I was speeding?

You can't know you're speeding if the limit isn't signed (for whatever reason).

Silvertap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122752072#Comment_122752072

The garda have stated In regards to the new 30km speed limit that it will not be able to issue penalties until all the signs are changed.

Dex Dexta

OP - get back and take photos from the approach side before the sign is turned and the hedgerow cut back on the other side.

Assume the worst - you will get a fine (my uncle was done at 108 in a 100 zone, on a dual carriageway, so even the anecdotal 10% no longer applies).

You don’t need a solicitor to show a judge some snaps.

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122752965#Comment_122752965

I agree, there is a question of fairness, but it is the position.

I can drive out the front gate of my house and travel some 10km before I meet any speed limit sign at all.

Dex Dexta

^ different scenario - you are take to be familiar with the road either side of your gate.

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122753002#Comment_122753002

No they haven’t.

In any case, a commencement order hasn’t yet been made by the minister on the speed limit sections of the 2024 Road Traffic Act. Presumably there will be some coordination between the various departments to ensure that an updating of signage concurs with the commencement of the new limits.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122753328#Comment_122753328

You might not think you need a solicitor, but unless you're familiar with how the district court works, you might make a balls of things.

Do you know how to introduce evidence, do you know the terminology to use?

Do you know what is implied by saying that you "wish to take a certain course of action"

Do you know what questions you never ask?

I've seen plenty of people who insist on not getting a solicitor and making a balls of it, by simply saying the wrong thing, at the wrong time.

It's not like what happens on TV,

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122753948#Comment_122753948

Do you know what is implied by saying that you "wish to take a certain course of action"

Do you know what questions you never ask?

Could you explain these two points?

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122754008#Comment_122754008

1: you intend to plead guilty.

2. Don't ask anything you don't already know the answer to.

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122753605#Comment_122753605

Any gate - same difference.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122754100#Comment_122754100

The presumption is you got there, so you should know when leaving there. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Dex Dexta

indeed - at risk of being done for speeding and driving without due care and attention.

Esel

Maybe there should be speed limit signs outside every gate and driveway in rural areas, just to be sure….

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122754193#Comment_122754193

I am not sure what point you are making?

Lack of signage is not a defence to a speeding charge. A persons familiarity with the road is immaterial.

Gusser09

Lads how long does it usually take for a fcpn from a go safe van to arrive? Think i was done exactly 3 weeks ago but nothing yet. Insurance due next week so just wondering. Thanks.

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122754546#Comment_122754546

Fingers crossed it doesn't come before then - if it comes at all.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122754497#Comment_122754497

Its the exact same as your point. Lack of a sign is not a defence. The person I was responding to was implying they could speed until they hit a sign which is untrue. The question they implied was how should they know when leaving from a house. The answer is simple. You got there, so you should have known on the way, also the speed limits are based on road type, so you are either educated enough to drive or you or not.

Dex Dexta

indeed - there is a speed limit sign outside every gate - it may not be directly outside the gate but rather a bit farther up the road. You pass it on the way home and cop-on to it, then remember it as you go back out the gate to rejoin the traffic.

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122756358#Comment_122756358

If you say so.