Parent Funeral Arrangements

taxAHcruel

This is actually an "asking for a friend" situation.

I know "power of attorney" is not really a thing. So there is a man who is nearing 80 and he wants to be cremated (by water) and his ashes scattered in a certain place. But 3 out of his 4 kids want him to be buried against his wishes.

How can he empower the 1 out of 4 children to ensure that his wishes are fulfilled? Whats the process to do this?

3DataModem

The personal representative (ie the executor) is the person who is legally entitled to make funeral arrangements when there is disagreement.

So a solicitor will recommend

(A)! Having a very clear letter of wishes drafted (note this is not legally binding)

(B) Choosing an executor who will respect the wishes

Note; there is technically no legal way to force a dead persons funeral wishes to be carried out: if for example the proposed executor died first or was unable or unwilling to be executor, then the next of kin could do what they wanted.

I’ll add on a personal note that it is pretty selfish for someone to have very specific wishes regarding their remains that may negatively impact the grieving of their loved ones. “I want my ashes scattered on croagh patrick” might mean some family members don’t get to grieve easily or at all at the final resting place.

Peregrinus

The will isn't admitted to probate until long after the funeral so, in practice, the nominated executor isn't well-posititioned to exercise his authority to override the wishes of other family members. In practice families have to come to some kind of agreement on the funeral arrangements.

He can set out his funeral wishes in his will — it doesn't have to be done in a separate letter of wishes. Assuming he intends to leave any property to his children, he could make a will leaving that property to them on condition that his remains have been cremated in accordance with his stated wishes, and leaving to to the Cats and Dogs Home if his wishes have not been respected.

He needs to tell his children that he has done this while he is still alive; this only works if they know about the condition attached to their bequests and, if they only find out about it when the will is read well, that will probably be after the funeral, which is too late to affect their decisions regarding the funeral.

Deeec

I think you need to have a chat with the elderly person and make sure that they are 100 percent happy with their decision that they want to be cremated rather than buried. Some people don't consider that there will be no grave for their family to visit or no gravestone to remember them. A relative of mine wanted to be cremated but when I explained the above she realised she was making the wrong decision - she very much wanted to be remembered for as long as her gravestone stood and wanted family to visit her grave. She's dead now and her family all agree how nice it is to have a grave to visit, to gather at anniversaries and have lovely colourful flowers on the grave. New babies have been introduced to her, family members have visited her grave on their wedding days and first communions etc. Future generations will remember her and visit her grave. I still visit my great great grandparents grave.

If they decide they do want to be cremated they can write this in their will and let their executor and family know that this is what they want and give reasons why they want this to help the family accept and understand. I do think it's very important for them to understand though that their family will have no place to go to visit them or to remember them. For families scattering ashes in some random location can often be very hard and can leave the grieving process harder.

Crakepottle?

There is also the option of the columbarium. Many graves are carefully maintained. Some are not and this is rather sad.No disrespect to the relatives. Some people find graves depressing. For many, it is physically impossible to attend the graveyard often enough to care for the grave. There are a number of considerations.

deeks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122710854#Comment_122710854

My opinion would be quite the opposite - I think its selfish of those left behind not to respect the wishes of the person who has died. Most "normal" people would not request ashes to be scattered at a place thats hugely inconvenient to get to. Ashes scattered at a place that was personal to the deceased / their family is far more personal than a pile of bones under a fancy stone in a field with thousands of other piles of bones if you ask me.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122710962#Comment_122710962

I agree that the person's wishes should be carried out but very often though the decision isn't fully thought through by the decreased.

I know of a family that it's was their mother's wishes for her ashes to be scattered at the farm she grew up on. The family had to bring the ashes from England and ask the new owners of the farm could they scatter the ashes. They were allowed do so but I have no doubt the current owners felt a bit uncomfortable. The family were put to alot of hassle and probably will never be able to visit the farm again as it's out of family ownership. It also saddened them that they have nowhere to remember her and she will be forgotten within a generation as no gravestone. They did however carry out her wishes.

naughtysmurf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122710872#Comment_122710872

you explained incorrectly, my father was cremated as per his wishes & the ashes placed in a grave with a headstone added afterwards, my mother wants a traditional burial & will be buried in the same grave & her details added to the headstone, this isn’t an issue at all, the grave is visited regularly

Some graveyards are now also putting or planning to put in place ( I’m not sure what they are called ) units for leaving a persons ashes that will be able to be visited,

A portion of my mother in laws ashes will be scattered in her favourite place, her family have some of her ashes in small personal urns & jewellery, the remainder was placed in a grave with a headstone

There are lots of options

Deeec

I don't know why you say I explained wrongly. There is no right or wrong way - it's up to the individual or family. Most people who are cremated will not buy a grave plot as well so your situation isn't the norm.

Personally I prefer a grave with the final remains buried in a coffin. A grave will always outlast a piece of jewellery in my opinion, but as I said there is no right or wrong way.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122710932#Comment_122710932

If there is a family grave ashes can be interred there too.

I really think the family need to respect the person's wishes even if they don't agree with their choice, it's the last thing you do for a loved one who dies before you.

Leg End Reject

Another consideration is land scarity. In some parts of the UK graves are leased, I can't remember how long the lease is but it's long enough to ensure the direct descendants of the deceased will be dead before the remains are buried in a communal grave and the plot leased to someone else.

It's also common for remains in older cemetery to be removed en masse to re-use the plots. Plenty of remains are discovered during excavation works as long forgotten burial places are disturbed.

A grave isn't guaranteed for eternity.

naughtysmurf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122711190#Comment_122711190

Because you said “ Some people don’t consider that there will be no grave for their family to visit or no gravestone to remember them “ & “ I do think it’s very important for them to understand though that their family will have no place to go to visit them or remember them “

that is all incorrect

You talked someone out of doing something they wanted to do based on incorrect information, she could have been cremated & her ashes interred into a grave & a headstone erected, it’s not unusual nowadays

I think that it is up to the individual, end of.

Personally I prefer a cremation to a burial as I think it’s easier on the families at a stressful time, always found the lowering of a coffin hard, my dad was cremated, my mother will be buried as per their wishes, no one else will have any input

naughtysmurf

just to add, a single grave can take three coffins or six cremated remains

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122712017#Comment_122712017

You are failing to understand the point I'm making - your parents considered what happened after their death in entirety and covered all needs which is great for them. Not all people do consider everything though - people flippantly say they want to be cremated and ashes put in the sea for example. But when they actually think the idea through, sometimes it's not what they want at all.

Your being ridiculous when you say I talked her out of her wishes - I didn't talk her out of anything - I encouraged her to think about her decision and be sure it's what she wanted. When she thought about it she realised herself cremation and scattering her ashes to the wind was not what she wanted.

Scattering ashes on a grave is a great idea if you've already got a grave that can be used.

You seem offended by what I'm saying but I'm not saying at all that burial is superior to cremation. I'm just saying both should be given careful consideration - therr are pros and cons to both.

naughtysmurf

When she expressed a wish to be cremated, why didn’t you say that’s lovely & would you like your ashes buried & a headstone erected afterwards so family & friends would have somewhere to go visit & remember them? If not, why not?

I don’t consider either burial or cremation to be superior over the other, maybe we agree on that, do you know how the ashes are returned to the family for interment , here is an example

IMG_0496.jpeg

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122712213#Comment_122712213

I am fully aware how ashes are returned to families!!!!