Under Age

cobham

I am doing some research and have found a 1920 Dublin marriage cert with bride down as 'under age' … does this mean under 21 years and in need of parental consent? Shockingly I see that back then 12 yrs was the legal age for marriage for a girl! and 14 for a boy.

Hermy

I'd imagine under age means under 21 in this case.

Bizarrely the age of consent in the Vatican was 12 up until 2013!

pinkypinky

I also think it's under 21.

Was her father one of the witnesses?

Have you been able to figure out how old she was?

cobham

A bit of a mystery with this lady… the name/occupation of the father seems to lead nowhere. No the witnesses were not family names from either side. She died in 1980 but no age given on death cert (based on Glasnevin register) Roll on the 1926 census release! How detailed will it be compared to the regular census form? Her grandson told me she reminisced about a rural childhood but I cannot see evidence of this as cannot find her family in the censuses.

Mick Tator

I replied to a similar Q ages ago and kept the response on file. In 1920 ‘Full’ age it means over 21 years, so 'Under Age' means <21. Her father would have to consent. In Ireland the age of majority was not reduced from 21 to 18 until 1 Jan 1970 (by the Family Law Reform Act 1969). The ‘drivers’ for that change primarily were commercial – legally anyone under 21 was an ‘infant’, could not enter into most contracts, e.g. buy a house, HP a car, etc. although they could marry.

Legal age for marriage is quite different. In 1920 under Civil Law in Ireland a male could marry at fourteen and a girl at 12, but marriages at that age were extremely rare. However, under Roman Catholic canon law, the age of marriage was raised in 1917 to 16 for males, 14 for females (with a stipulation that marriages were not to be celebrated unless the parties were also of age to marry according to the local civil law). In Ireland the civil law ages remained at 14 and 12 until the Marriages Act 1972 (yes, 1972!) raised the minimum age for marriage to 16 years, with a provision enabling the President of the High Court to grant an exemption for a person who has not attained that age. [I think it has since been increased to 18 by the laws surrounding the legal age for consent.]

cobham

Thank you Mick. In my case, I suspect this girl might have been born to unmarried mother/ difficult home situation and came to Dublin to work. I thought the RC church required a baptism cert. I wonder how these poor girls managed? Perhaps the man she named in the marriage cert was an employer and he vouched for her but I cannot find him in the earlier censuses. The person who asked me to research this is interested in a possible rural background that his gran spoke of in last year of her life.

Was place of birth a question in the 1926 census? Was it as comprehensive as the regular census?

pinkypinky

Sample of it on Claire Santry's Irish Genealogy Toolkit site:

Birthplace was asked and the sample shows in the format of town, county, or city if urban. The main difference is the employer's name was given and duration of present marriage continued.

https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/support-files/1926examples.pdf

cobham

Something to look forward to! only 19 mths til April '26 😯

pinkypinky

I've literally been waiting since they released 1911 for it, so what's another year….

Mick Tator

@cobham Before her marriage the bride definitely would have been required to produce a baptismal certificate or a letter from her birthplace PP saying she was baptised. Sometimes a girl marrying outside her home parish would have an entry written in the margin of the home Bapt. Register stating ‘married in xx at yy date’. Technically, a confirmation cert also was required, but that sometimes was dispensed with by the priest – I’ve been told it came down to the strictness of the bishop and the control he exercised over his PPs. If, as you suggest, she might have been illegitimate, that would make no difference at marriage; but a bapt. Cert / letter was a ‘must’ and if not obtained from a rural parish, a ‘sub conditione’ baptism would have taken place in the period leading up to the marriage – it would be worthwhile to check the marriage church’s Bapt. Register. Two other matters worth considering – if she was a domestic servant/similar work and her employer knew the priest, I’d bet the priest would accept his ‘consent’ as valid ‘in loco parentis’. Secondly, the RC Church had no issues with pregnancy and were particularly happy to marry heavily pregnant women (increasing their flock, saving from sin, etc!) so I’d also check to see if there was a birth soon after the marriage – sponsors etc might give further clues..

cobham

Great round up there Mick! Yes there was a baby born some months later but I have since found her birth register. Not sure how I missed it before? and she was 20 yrs old so family reputation restored. I could not find her in 1911 but found her parents and one other child. I now have her as a one yr old in 1901. Sometimes I notice I made the mistake of searching church records instead of civil records and that might be how 'no results found' when I put in narrow search dates for her birth.

All good information aired here tho about the 'under age' issue. I note that the parents of this girl were married in St Andrews in Westland Row which was perhaps because it was not her parish but that of the Archbishops where such special marriages with dispensation took place.

Mick Tator

Great that you got it sorted! Thanks for letting us know.