Missing tittle to property being purchased

Sq

Looking for advice on what to do

Me and my wife went sale agreed on a property west of the country, got a solicitor and we soon found out

Owner did not have Title deed

The property was unregistered (No folio number) --- so I am guessing compulsory first registration is required.

The solicitor said we will need to get a “defective title policy/indemnity” .

Searches were also carried out and the searches showed there was one deed from developer to seller and no other names turned up.

Seller did not have a mortgage on it so no record of that. The seller was able to provide other documents like BER certs, tax documents etc. the seller’s solicitor also declined providing a declaration of identity for the boundaries of the property

Our solicitor has been with the contracts for a few weeks and hasn’t spoken to us about signing which is a good thing, but also hasn’t said we should pull-out of the purchase

also, our solicitor is saying they will need at least a memorial of deed from the seller. are we shooting ourselves in the foot proceeding with this property? do we pullout or keep looking?

can the registration of the property be declined? is there something else we should be considering? its been 3 months since we went sale agreed on the property. Would this affect mortgage draw down or future selling? I am told if registered successfully then there should be no issues selling down the line.

SupaCat95

Christ on a bike my heart goes out to you. It always something to hold up a sale. No title/deed is no protection. You are taking all the risk. What does solicitor say? Its too big of a risk for €N00,000. How does someone sell it with no title/deed?

IIf it was me I would walk away.

How ever if you have balls of steel and can sit on the property solid for 12 years (10, then 2 there after to register adverse possession). You gotta sit on it and invest in the property and hope 2nd cousin Patrick fromBoston doesnt turn up from Boston looking for his share of the will from the 1950s.

YYou have to ne buying this place at serious discount.

MMy advice: As Podge said to Rodge, I wouldnt touch it with yours

C3PO

Put simply, there is no way that you will draw down a mortgage until this is sorted! If it is sorted to the satisfaction of your mortgage provider, I’d be happy to proceed and if not, you won’t be proceeding anyway!

Sq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122564826#Comment_122564826

The seller said it was lost. we didn't know about it till 3 weeks from the sale agreed and the estate agent feigned ignorance that they had no knowledge about it aId i was told later that the seller's solicitor was looking to reconstitute it. it's a crazy situation to be in to be honest

Sq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122566617#Comment_122566617

thanks, it's just an extremely uncomfortable situation to be in. considering the housing market

C3PO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122566876#Comment_122566876

I get that it’s really frustrating but it will have to be sorted whether for you or another buyer. It won’t be the first or last time that deeds go missing - it can be fixed.

wildwillow

Surely it is up to the vendor to sort out all this. Estate agents should be mandated to require that all the paper work and Property charges are perfect before accepting a property for sale.

SupaCat95

How the fupp does a set of deeds get lost? I have never seen the deeds od a property but I believe its as big as a telephone directory. My understanding was they were always kept under lock and key in either the bank for safe keeping or in the solicitors office. I wouldnt buy without a serious discount.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122569363#Comment_122569363

Deeds are just relatively small pieces of paper. I had ours here for a short while until they were deposited safely. They can, and do get lost. Looking for a discount won't solve anything.

OP, you're not the first and you'll not be the last. Solicitors are fairly used to the process. It'll sort itself out.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122569363#Comment_122569363

They can be as short as a few pages in many cases. The deed or folio is held by the bank until the mortgage is paid, at which point it is given to the owner. Generally, one leaves the deed with a solicitor or in a bank, but it’s not unheard of for them to be lost.

To be honest, these are checks that EAs should make before accepting a house for sale, but they seemingly never do.

My suggestion, if you really want the house, is to negotiate a reduction in the price agreed. Personally, however, I would drop out as I would consider this a breech of the agreement of sale.

CramCycle

Get them to sort it, it is a first registration but you should not do it, let them sort it and once done, proceed with sale. It will take awhile but if they won't, then it is sadly time to walk away. There may never be an issue but your bank might never give a mortgage either which means they need a 100% cash buyer.

SupaCat95

Does anyone know how to actually replace the deeds after they are lost? Can you just order a replacement copy like a birth cert? There must be an original copy held with the Land Registry? A property without deeds is not fit for sale. You either have them or you don't.

AAsk your solicitor the time to replace them, plus one weekif it aint sorted by then seriously consider walking away.

Also shoddy pracitice by their estate agent NOT checking the deed and ownership.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122580830#Comment_122580830

There's a short article on it here:

https://www.merrionvaults.ie/lost-title-deeds-next/

This really is a matter for a solicitor as it's not just a case of replacing a tax-disk or something similar. It may be more straight-forward these days as most of these documents are digitally stored, but I don't know. It's not something that's going to be quickly resolved, I fear :(

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122581347#Comment_122581347

Title reconstruction for something that was never registered is a lot more complicated as there will be next to nothing, possibly nothing, digitally stored. Memorial of Deeds images would be on a computer but not indexed reliably as its often handwritten stuff.

Compulsory registration is ridiculously recent.

southofthelee

IMHO: Walk away.

I note you are seeking to draw down a mortgage on this property - the banks simply won't lend on questionable title.

"

the seller’s solicitor also declined providing a declaration of identity for the boundaries of the property

"

Is a massive red flag.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583531#Comment_122583531

cash purchaser only!

Sq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122581366#Comment_122581366

could this be a matter of a few months or could it take longer, we are also looking at other properties in the meantime

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122587178#Comment_122587178

If your solicitor doesn't have recent experience or advice on this; I'd suggest walk away now.

Markus Antonius

Solicitors are great at taking their time

Sq

Does calling the land registry help in finding out if we will be able to register the property if bought?