Ambulance for my Dad

Tilly67

Hello

I have a Dad aged 68 who is suffering from old age and is after turning senile and paranoid and losing touch with reality from living in his flat for the last couple of years on his own.

I had an appointment with his Doctor to discuss his mental health and to make a call out to his flat , my Dad acted as if he was alright with the Doctor to avoid a hospital and medication

He is threating people in his apartment complex and refuses help of any kind

is it plausible to ring an Ambulance for hospital for a situation like this as i don't want to look stupid when they call to his flat and say they cant take him

 

L1011

If he's able to act OK at a GP, he's going to be seen as fine by an ambulance crew most likely.

Witcher

The first question is..what are you hoping to achieve by calling an ambulance for him?

Tilly67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480714#Comment_122480714

yes he just acted if he was ok to avoid hospital

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480716#Comment_122480716

he will need hospital due to his mental state at the moment and hopefully accessed by a psychiatrist

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480735#Comment_122480735

And if as you say he wants to avoid hospital, do you believe an ambulance will achieve that given that they can't and won't take someone by force?

Ezeoul

I can't see an ambulance taking your Dad to hospital unless there is a medical emergency. I doubt threatening neighbours would fall under that, but I feel your concerns.

My mother developed dementia, and became delusional. Seeing things and people that weren't there. It wasn't until she physically hurt herself one night (a bad fall that required treatment for a bump to the head and a fractured wrist) that we were able to get her into a hospital and her needs properly assessed. That fall was a blessing in disguise, as before then, everything we tried to do for her fell on deaf ears.

You need to speak to the GP again. (If he will speak to you).

Clareman

Sounds to me that it's something like this that you are looking for,

Involuntary admission: being admitted to hospital against your will - HSE.ie

Tilly67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480795#Comment_122480795

that sounds about right

Jim2007

Well first of all 68 is not that old and all you actually got is that he supposedly threatened someone and your amateur opinion and that is not much to go on. And clearly the doctor, the professional, does not agree with you.

What does your family say about this.

Lenar3556

These can be difficult situations for all involved.

The criteria for involuntary admission to a psychiatric hospital is necessarily strict, and the circumstances of any such admission are frequently reviewed by independent parties.
If his GP, having met with him, was not convinced that an involuntary admission was warranted, then this is likely the end of this avenue for now at least.

I would suggest keeping in touch with his GP, who is usually well positioned to support in these cases. There may potentially be other ways of helping your dad with any issues he is currently experiencing.

If there were to be a significant worsening of his condition, you could make a formal application under the mental health act for involuntary admission. This would again be made to his GP, and would necessitate a his assessment by the GP within 24hours. The GP would then make a recommendation for admission if he believed it necessary.

Maxface

Look for getting a Social Worker involved, his GP will support that. You can refer him in also. If you want help with it, an organisation like Alone.ie will support, refer him into them.

Tilly67

i was with his Doctor today , as he cant do a house call to my Dad , he said it would be perfectly fine to ring an Ambulance

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122555454#Comment_122555454

To do what with him?

Based on what you've said, he doesn't meet the criteria for hospitalisation and certainly doesn't meet the criteria for involuntary psychiatric admission; so they'll likely talk to him and drive away

Tilly67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122555493#Comment_122555493

Hi L1011

im going to go with my Doctors advice anyway , my Dad is threatening other tenants in his flat complex and is going to become a danger to himself and others

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122555454#Comment_122555454

No doctor in his right mind would tell you not to call an ambulance if you thought there was a medical emergency…. What the ambulance crew will say or do is another matter…. And what your dad may decide to do legally when he gets out, if they even take him in might not be what you want either!

zg3409

These are complex cases and I don't think an ambulance would be a good idea in short or long term. I have gone through similar.

Most elderly want to stay at home as long as possible and as they age they struggle with remembering things and daily chores.

It might be better to start down the road of requesting home help for 1 hour a day, or meals and wheels to call and offer support and hot food. All this needs to be done with care and understanding. Often elderly refuse all help and don't want anyone inside their home. Often when the help is in place they are much happier. Similarly with "disabled" showers etc.

Mental health services only really take in those at extreme risk and even then they like to discharge them quickly. There is probably a community mental health nurse in your region and they make house calls but are normally overwhelmed. I can take weeks to get in touch with them and get them to visit. If they don't visit they cannot recommend home help hours, nor add them to the list of patients. That would be my recommendation. Ring your local mental health centre and try get a mobile number for the mental health nurse.

Practical things such as becoming a member of a men's shed, any hobby where you meet others, active retirement, any stimulation or getting out of the house to meet friends, going to cinema etc. Medication may help too but often the activities can help more.

The dangers with ringing an ambulance, and I have been down that road, is the ambulance can only take you to your local A&E, they are typically chaos with people sitting for days on chairs. The A&E firstly check for physical problems such as high blood pressure, underweight, and once they are happy nothing non mental then they can refer to mental services as mental services need a physical sign off first. Mental services at the a&e location may be little or nothing, maybe one physiologist for whole hospital working office hours. Person may be admitted into a noisy ward with others in room suicidal, out of their mind etc. Hospital may keep patient or transfer to specialist unit. They typically want local mental health office to take ownership or they just discharge them. While in hospital very high chances of super bugs (my dad got one) delirium due to hospital only (my dad), falling multiple times (my dad). In the end he would have been better at home. Eventually it gets to a point where family can't cope at home even if living in with person, but nursing home is $$$ and fair deal can take months and during that time your loved one can be stuck in hospital as a bed blocker.

So I seriously think you should do your research, consider your options and try be a friend to the person in need. Try make their quality of life higher and do things they might like and try get community nurses or meals and wheels or friends of the elderly etc involved. They know the system inside and out and I would avoid an ambulance except in a crisis. Try to meet these people separate to your father to prevent a conflict and ensure they know enough to try help.