Fixing area at end of back garden - advice please

Hippodrome Song Owl

I need advice on what to do with the end of my back garden please. Budget is limited so paving etc is not an option. Ideally €2k, max €3k.

Complete novice here, but enjoy my garden. I just want something low-ish upkeep (don't mind managing plants and weeding small areas like beds). A gardener will be carrying out the job - I will have in-depth meeting soon, so looking for some pointers in preparation for that discussion. Thanks.

Current Situation:

Suburban semi-d, North facing garden with total size 13mx9m. Area in question is 4mx9m, overlooked behind by other houses, bounded on three sides by concrete block walls and on one side by the lawn.

Trees (massively overgrown leylandii intertwined with brambles and hawthorn) were removed last year leaving this bare section. Stumps were left at the time of removal - 5 big lleylandi stumps along the back wall and a few small bramble and hawthorn stumps also along wall.

Otherwise it's bare soil between lawn and wall, but in reality growing wild with weeds since last month as I just can't keep on top of it in this weather.

Suggested Options (by gardener in casual chat):

Small bramble and hawthorn stumps need to be removed now - they are re-growing obviously so this must be factored into costs.

Raised bed along back wall to include leylandii stumps within it so they wouldn't be removed - is that workable?
Bamboo in this raised bed was talked about for privacy - but I'm seeing more horror stories about it, and I'd prefer something more natural looking and good for nature and wildlife. Photinia maybe? Or what might work here and be reasonably manageable for me with no skills, or with max one or two visits from a gardener each year?

Also suggested that rest of space between lawn and proposed raised bed to be covered in gravel - it's the sunniest part of the garden so we could sit out here. A weed membrane has been mentioned - I've read mixed views on this here.

Other Considerations:

Would just extending the lawn to the new raised bed along the back wall be better than gravel? I would love a small tree of some sort (cherry, maple, crab maybe?), but maybe not possible in gravel?

Any better suggestions or ideas?

looksee

Since you have some hawthorn trees along the wall, why not leave them? They can be cut ruthlessly to create a preferred shape, they can be allowed to grow into trees if you prefer, or cut into bushes, they look nice and are virtually unkillable. Very bird and insect friendly.

You can still have a raised bed, just leave the area immediately around the hawthorns a bit low, eventually they will accept the higher soil level.

Lawn or gravel in the space is up to you, it sounds as though gravel may be better. If you have small children it will get everywhere, they can't resist it. In a north facing garden a lawn depends on how much light there is. Certainly put a membrane under gravel, it is one of the more useful purposes for membrane, but not in beds. Some weeds will grow anyway in the gravel above the membrane, but easy to pull out.

Its a good idea to put more soil down around the leylandii as the old soil will not be much good and there will be a lot of roots - they will eventually rot away. You don't have to completely cover them though, just plant round the stumps or put pots or whatever on them until they eventually rot away. They can look quite nice with a creeper - honeysuckle maybe - growing over them.

Hippodrome Song Owl

Thanks for those ideas and tips @looksee. At least I have some idea where to start in talking to the gardener now.

The majority of the rest of the garden is lawn, and it's doing fairly well - better than the south-facing front! No children to factor in anyway so I'll probably go with gravel at the end. Or should it be decorative stone rather than gravel?

I'll see about leaving the hawthorn to grow, but it's right against the wall, so I was concerned about damage to the wall - but maybe that's not a concern?

It's such a shame the previous owner chose lleylandii and then chose to let them and brambles grow out of control, leaving an inaccessible 4m deep thorny jungle. 25 years of growth wasted.

If anyone has any other thoughts on hedging or bushes to grow along the back wall for privacy, and for birds and beauty, I'd appreciate any suggestions.

looksee

My personal choice would be gravel. Its going to have to be topped up every year or two anyway, certainly in the first couple of years, so it would work out cheaper. Also, its just my opinion and I know it would not be shared by everyone, but I don't like most of the decorative stone, its artificial looking to me.

The hawthorns against the wall; its hard to say without seeing the situation and the condition of the wall. On the whole I would doubt they would harm it, if they haven't by now it seems likely that they will not, but I can't say for sure. There is likely to be a mat of leylandii detritus which might be a good idea to remove and replace with soil, but I haven't had any immediate experience of them so I will defer to people who know. Could you put up a photo of the area?

Leg End Reject

I think it's a pity you cut the hawthorn, I'd definitely let that regrow.

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122478856#Comment_122478856

It was enclosed in a dense 4m deep mass of lleylandii and brambles taller than my house. Thorny vines had snaked around the whole thing so you couldn't get in at all and the wall behind was being pushed on by lleylandia branches which had knocked upper blocks out. It all just had to go to reclaim the garden and get to the wall, unfortunately.

@looksee I'm not around to get photos today but will see can I get some up tomorrow. Thanks again.

looksee

If they were just cut off (not poisoned) the hawthorns will almost certainly grow again, look closely at them to see if there are any signs of life.

Goldengirl

Have a similar raised bank at the back of ours with a mix of large shrubs , holly , Pittosporum some black elder for flowers and photinia . Anything is better than the Leylandii . It is colourful and the birds love it . It is high enough as growing a long time but we cut it back and shape it every year

That and some topsoil or compost and a bit of weeding is about the size of the work to keep it nice .

In front of these we have medium to low size flowering perennials planted bit by bit interspersed with smaller flowering herbaceous plants which I change up every few years.

The stumps will rot down if you keep the muck and greenery topped up around it . May be a little acidic for a while with leylandii bits but most stuff mentioned will do well in whatever topsoil .

I would go with either a membrane and/ or a good well flattened area of aggregate checking the levels to make sure you don't get ponding . This can happen even with gravel .

Ask the landscaper to do this well ..that's his job and if you don't do this right you will get weeds and puddles and it will be a mess.

Like the idea of a nice grassy area up to the raised border . Is this the bit that gets the most sun ? If so it can get hard and compacted in summer ( if we get a summer !) so maybe the gravel or a few flagstones there long-term .

I watch a lot of stuff on youtube which is great for inspiration, maybe something like this for some ideas?

All that was there starting out was the shrub against the railing, I think it's lilac but like hawthorn could be limbed up and tidied into treeform. The stones here were exchanged for decorative stones which really look lovely against the slate grey of the sleepers. The raised bed is staggered at different levels which gives a nice bit of interest and while I get that it's very formal, I like the use of small trees for privacy (holm oaks topiary) and box hedging, it gives a good idea of what's possible in a small space. One or two specimen plants and the water feature, all in a north facing garden.

https://youtu.be/BMwK7Dlb_eA?si=V0IpFPLHY8f-lyDz

Hippodrome Song Owl

Thanks so much for all the tips here, I have a clearer idea of what to discuss with the gardener now.

The first photo is what it looked like initially when cleared, second photo is with all the weeds now - you can see it's the sunny part of the garden. Last photo is a hawthorn stump against the wall. No poisons were used, trees were just cut.

The fuchsia is out of control now on one side and gardener is keen to remove it to fully clear the area for gravel. I love it though (obviously it needs to be cut right back though).

looksee

You can certainly cut the fuchsia right back. It could probably be left to grow out of gravel with pruning and shaping, depending on the condition it is in. The trunk can be broken and rotten and it will send up flowering branches, but it won't look very good. The hawthorn doesn't look very lively, but its hard to tell.

The gardener needs to get the crown of each bramble - the knobbly bit just under the ground, it needs to be dug up. One spray of weedkiller will not clear brambles, it may may the tops look sick but they will be back. If you continue to spray them every season eventually they will die, but if he just sprays once they will be back. (I had a bramble growing out of a crack in concrete up against the house, and it took three years of persistent weedkilling to kill it.)

standardg60

My two cents; rather than creating a straight 2m deep bed and a 2m strip of gravel I would lay sleepers at 45° to the wall in a zigzag creating a bed depth of between 1 and 4m. Then lay gravel in the angles with one larger area, 3m x3m, for a sitting area.

This gives more of an impression of being amongst the planting, breaks up the straight lines of the garden, and allows the planting of a tree or two in the deeper beds away from the wall.

standardg60

And I'd definitely spray the area with glyphosate before starting, waste of labour hand weeding it.